I was thinking about this for the past couple days. I was in my sociology class in college and it was making my blood boil listening to the teacher talk about the traditions of some cultures. I think of the bigotry and marriage institution, how pointless it is and holds back gay couples. Religion, which is based entirely on the tradition of teaching a millenniums old book. Sure, some things which are logical and practical are more than just tradition like wearing clothes and eating food. Also there's staunch traditionalists known as republicans and conservatives. I don't know why people are so averted to change. It's a logical fallacy to say that things are good the way they are because that's the way things have always been. Can you think of any more bullshit traditions and things that conservatives will get pissy about?

(September 13, 2014 at 11:39 am)MusicLovingAtheist Wrote: I was thinking about this for the past couple days. I was in my sociology class in college and it was making my blood boil listening to the teacher talk about the traditions of some cultures. I think of the marriage institution and how pointless it is and holds back gay couples. Religion, which is based entirely on the tradition of teaching a millenniums old book. Sure, some things which are logical and practical are more than just tradition like wearing clothes and eating food. Also there's staunch traditionalists known as republicans and conservatives. I don't know why people are so averted to change. It's a logical fallacy to say that things are good the way they are because that's the way things have always been. Can you think of any more bullshit traditions and things that conservatives will get pissy about?

I don't know about conservatives but two traditions that annoy me off the top of my head are having a royal family and not using video technology to referee a game of football (soccer).

The main argument for traditionalism, and it is not an argument that can be trivially dismissed, is in essence this: a working society is a supreme good. A traditional society clearly works, otherwise it wouldn't have lived long enough for its views to become customary and its institutions to become traditions. Since societies and human behaviors are highly complex and often difficult to thoroughly analyze and predict, breaking with what works could never be guaranteed to result in things that would work as well as before, nor could the unforeseen cost of the change be guaranteed to be less than the alleged benefit of the change.

I agree. Although the opposite also applies. Some traditions shouldn't be thrown out just because they become unfashionable, or just because we're too greedy to be able to control ourselves.

(September 13, 2014 at 12:14 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: I agree. Although the opposite also applies. Some traditions shouldn't be thrown out just because they become unfashionable, or just because we're too greedy to be able to control ourselves.

Be care of the how the word greed is really used. Where religion prophets and teachers of morality are concerned, the prohibition against greed is often nothing more than an attempt to reduce competition for what one wants for one self.

Indeed

Working to have the government neutral towards minorities, and insuring the onerous aspects of traditionalism fall on the traditionalists seems like a fine outcome.

Why is there so much flack against traditionalism? Traditionalists, as I see them in Europe are only people who like keeping their culture's traditions alive - I don't see anything wrong with that, as long as the practices are not harmful. If there is a tradition of eating chicken every year on saturdays (just a random example) why be against it?

But of course - Tradition shouldn't serve as an argument against or for something - Even though I believe the State should preserve traditions of it's country - Not by imposing it but by allowing people to continue doing it.

Marriage already is like a tradition - Letting gays getting married won't change that - On the other hand, gays will embrace the tradition of marriage, a conservative institution - This is the argument used by one of my pro gay marriage conservative friends.

I know a good example of a tradition that will piss some conservatives if you are against it (mainly in southern Europe) - Bullfighting (and it's considered national cultural patrimony)

'Tradition' is just a fanciful term to describe collective habit. We don't tend to promote or defend bad or harmful habits just because they are habits. Harmful traditions should be shucked off in the same manner with no tears shed.

My ancestors valued their tradition of peace with the Earth. That's worth keeping.