Lets take away all of the fluff and feathers for a minute. Let's take away all of the technical babble, all of the rhetoric for just a second.

I can't speak for every religion, but I am a Christian theist. Now what does that imply? Well, that would mean that I believe Jesus Christ died on the cross for the sins of mankind, and that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have everlasting life.

That is basically my belief in a nut shell. Now, if you are an atheist, you may find my beliefs laughable, sickening, stupid, etc....which is fine, Christianity isn't for everyone because after all, Jesus said "But the gateway to life is very narrow and the road is difficult, and only a few ever find it." (Matt 7:14).

But as an atheist, here is what you have to believe...you have to believe that billions of years ago before humanity, dead matter was floating around in space...and for whatever reason, suddenly, this dead matter "came to life". Not only did it come to life, but it came to life and began thinking, talking, and having sex.

Just think about that for a second. This non-living material suddenly CAME TO LIFE. For the life of me, I just can't get myself to believe that, even if I tried. I just don't understand how naturalism/atheism is a more reasonable position than theism.

You have to believe that a process that can't think or see, created consciousness. So consciousness came from a process that can't think??

I just don't have enough faith to be an atheist.

(November 2, 2014 at 1:16 pm)His_Majesty Wrote: But as an atheist, here is what you have to believe...you have to believe that billions of years ago before humanity, dead matter was floating around in space...and for whatever reason, suddenly, this dead matter "came to life". Not only did it come to life, but it came to life and began thinking, talking, and having sex.

Why the heck do I have to believe such nonsense?

(November 2, 2014 at 1:16 pm)His_Majesty Wrote: Just think about that for a second. This non-living material suddenly CAME TO LIFE. For the life of me, I just can't get myself to believe that, even if I tried. I just don't understand how naturalism/atheism is a more reasonable position than theism.

Thankfully we don't believe that either.

But christianity does believe dust suddenly came to life, began talking, and having sex by magic of sky daddy.

(November 2, 2014 at 1:16 pm)His_Majesty Wrote: You have to believe that a process that can't think or see, created consciousness. So consciousness came from a process that can't think??

I just don't have enough faith to be an atheist.

I am glad to hear you don't have enough faith. You shouldn't practice atheism because of faith.

(November 2, 2014 at 1:16 pm)His_Majesty Wrote: But as an atheist, here is what you have to believe...

No. I do not have to accept your misconceived notion of atheism.

(November 2, 2014 at 1:16 pm)His_Majesty Wrote: This non-living material suddenly CAME TO LIFE.

False, but it is no shock that most theists believe the theistic rubbish they are taught in a church building instead of paying attention in science class at school.

(November 2, 2014 at 1:16 pm)His_Majesty Wrote: I just don't have enough faith to be an atheist.

Atheism does not require faith. Atheism is understanding that faith is fallible and unnecessary.

(November 2, 2014 at 1:16 pm)His_Majesty Wrote: Lets take away all of the fluff and feathers for a minute. Let's take away all of the technical babble, all of the rhetoric for just a second.

I can't speak for every religion, but I am a Christian theist. Now what does that imply? Well, that would mean that I believe Jesus Christ died on the cross for the sins of mankind, and that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have everlasting life.

That is basically my belief in a nut shell. Now, if you are an atheist, you may find my beliefs laughable, sickening, stupid, etc....which is fine, Christianity isn't for everyone because after all, Jesus said "But the gateway to life is very narrow and the road is difficult, and only a few ever find it." (Matt 7:14).

But as an atheist, here is what you have to believe...you have to believe that billions of years ago before humanity, dead matter was floating around in space...and for whatever reason, suddenly, this dead matter "came to life". Not only did it come to life, but it came to life and began thinking, talking, and having sex.

Just think about that for a second. This non-living material suddenly CAME TO LIFE. For the life of me, I just can't get myself to believe that, even if I tried. I just don't understand how naturalism/atheism is a more reasonable position than theism.

You have to believe that a process that can't think or see, created consciousness. So consciousness came from a process that can't think??

I just don't have enough faith to be an atheist.

But you have enough faith to believe that snakes talk, seas part, two of every living thing fit aboard a boat, that Jesus cursed a fig tree in a fit of petulant rage, that God killed himself after being born of a virgin in order that men might be free from sin, that the ineffable creatrix of the universe cares who you have sex with and all the other rubbish in the Bible?

As to your wonky objection to atheism, you should study complexity and information theory before you decry abiogenesis.

Boru

(November 2, 2014 at 1:16 pm)His_Majesty Wrote: Lets take away all of the fluff and feathers for a minute. Let's take away all of the technical babble, all of the rhetoric for just a second.

I can't speak for every religion, but I am a Christian theist. Now what does that imply? Well, that would mean that I believe Jesus Christ died on the cross for the sins of mankind, and that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have everlasting life.

That is basically my belief in a nut shell. Now, if you are an atheist, you may find my beliefs laughable, sickening, stupid, etc....

I'd start with Christianity being unconvincing rubbish myself, but do continue.

Quote:
which is fine, Christianity isn't for everyone because after all, Jesus said "But the gateway to life is very narrow and the road is difficult, and only a few ever find it." (Matt 7:14).

But as an atheist, here is what you have to believe...you have to believe that billions of years ago before humanity, dead matter was floating around in space...and for whatever reason, suddenly, this dead matter "came to life". Not only did it come to life, but it came to life and began thinking, talking, and having sex.

Well no as an atheist I just have to not believe in god. That's it nothing more.

Quote:Just think about that for a second. This non-living material suddenly CAME TO LIFE.

So you think the theory of abiogenesis posits that life just poofed into existence. You my friend have no read up on it the evidence points towards organic matter turning into cells, there have been experiments and everything and is certainly a more reasonable and satisfying explanation to "magic man dun it" with no explanation as to HOW this was possibly achieved by said powerful sky wizard.

Quote: For the life of me, I just can't get myself to believe that, even if I tried. I just don't understand how naturalism/atheism is a more reasonable position than theism.

Your ignorance is not a valid argument.

Quote:You have to believe that a process that can't think or see, created consciousness. So consciousness came from a process that can't think?

Scientists are working on how abiogenesis may have occurred and have had some positive results so a viable process is emerging that we can study and yes consciousness came from non-consciousness. There is no alternative.

Quote:I just don't have enough faith to be an atheist.

To be an atheist all that is required is to find theism unconvincing, I also find it laughably stupid, but that is not really needed.

(November 2, 2014 at 1:16 pm)His_Majesty Wrote: Lets take away all of the fluff and feathers for a minute. Let's take away all of the technical babble, all of the rhetoric for just a second.

I can't speak for every religion, but I am a Christian theist. Now what does that imply? Well, that would mean that I believe Jesus Christ died on the cross for the sins of mankind, and that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have everlasting life.

That is basically my belief in a nut shell. Now, if you are an atheist, you may find my beliefs laughable, sickening, stupid, etc....which is fine, Christianity isn't for everyone because after all, Jesus said "But the gateway to life is very narrow and the road is difficult, and only a few ever find it." (Matt 7:14).

But as an atheist, here is what you have to believe...you have to believe that billions of years ago before humanity, dead matter was floating around in space...and for whatever reason, suddenly, this dead matter "came to life". Not only did it come to life, but it came to life and began thinking, talking, and having sex.

Just think about that for a second. This non-living material suddenly CAME TO LIFE. For the life of me, I just can't get myself to believe that, even if I tried. I just don't understand how naturalism/atheism is a more reasonable position than theism.

You have to believe that a process that can't think or see, created consciousness. So consciousness came from a process that can't think??

I just don't have enough faith to be an atheist.

No, my atheism is simply a lack of faith in gods.

My rationality leads me to believe that it makes more sense that a massive vacuum fluctuation brought about our universe, than to believe that an invisible guy in the sky created a garden with fruit that could teach people about morality and let them live forever, who also made those people, and the talking snake who seduced them, who then punished them all to death for not knowing right from wrong, who then sent his own son/himself to somehow wipe away their "crimes" with his tortuous death ... and who then turns around and says he loves us like a father.

No matter what you say about my atheism, your Christianity sounds like a load of horseshit, no matter the pretty words you use to gussy it up.

Which old asshole are you Parkers tan?

(November 2, 2014 at 1:24 pm)Aoi Magi Wrote: Why the heck do I have to believe such nonsense?

Are you an atheist? If you are, according to the wiki passage of "atheism", which cited its source...

"As commonly understood, atheism is the position that affirms the nonexistence of God. So an atheist is someone who disbelieves in God, whereas a theist is someone who believes in God. Another meaning of 'atheism' is simply nonbelief in the existence of God, rather than positive belief in the nonexistence of God. ... an atheist, in the broader sense of the term, is someone who disbelieves in every form of deity, not just the God of traditional Western theology."

Now, this has been the traditional definition of atheism...even though the definition has been revised over the years because its advocates knew just how absurd the position is.

(November 2, 2014 at 1:24 pm)Aoi Magi Wrote: Thankfully we don't believe that either

Well, the forum member "Brian" had just made a post where he was implying that "we" shouldn't believe anything unless it can be scientifically proven, which is naturalism.

So in other words, some people DO believe that.

(November 2, 2014 at 1:24 pm)Aoi Magi Wrote: But christianity does believe dust suddenly came to life, began talking, and having sex by magic of sky daddy.

You call the head dog of my belief "Sky Daddy"...I call the head dog of your belief "Mother Nature". Get it? Sky Daddy/Mother Nature?

(November 2, 2014 at 1:24 pm)Aoi Magi Wrote: I am glad to hear you don't have enough faith. You shouldn't practice atheism because of faith.

Apparently, you do.

So is faith a good thing or a bad one?

(November 2, 2014 at 1:16 pm)His_Majesty Wrote: But as an atheist, here is what you have to believe...you have to believe that billions of years ago before humanity, dead matter was floating around in space...and for whatever reason, suddenly, this dead matter "came to life". Not only did it come to life, but it came to life and began thinking, talking, and having sex.

"Dead matter"? Because it doesn't presume motive and/or instinct? Who's to say that matter isn't very much alive? After all, the natural forces responsible for biological life are the same forces responsible for the formation of galaxies, stars, planets, and ecosystems.

Quote:Just think about that for a second. This non-living material suddenly CAME TO LIFE. For the life of me, I just can't get myself to believe that, even if I tried. I just don't understand how naturalism/atheism is a more reasonable position than theism.

It's precisely "thinking... for a second" that precludes "God" as a satisfactory explanation for... anything.

Quote:You have to believe that a process that can't think or see, created consciousness. So consciousness came from a process that can't think??

You mean like the origin of your own consciousness from a (non-thinking) fertilized egg? Yeah, that is amazing, almost magical, but it's not supernatural.

Quote:I just don't have enough faith to be an atheist.

Me neither. But when you actually try to think your way to it, it comes very naturally, and quite easily.