Where in this:

Quote:"As commonly understood, atheism is the position that affirms the nonexistence of God. So an atheist is someone who disbelieves in God, whereas a theist is someone who believes in God. Another meaning of 'atheism' is simply nonbelief in the existence of God, rather than positive belief in the nonexistence of God. ... an atheist, in the broader sense of the term, is someone who disbelieves in every form of deity, not just the God of traditional Western theology."

Do you get this?:

(November 2, 2014 at 1:16 pm)His_Majesty Wrote: But as an atheist, here is what you have to believe...you have to believe that billions of years ago before humanity, dead matter was floating around in space...and for whatever reason, suddenly, this dead matter "came to life". Not only did it come to life, but it came to life and began thinking, talking, and having sex.

(November 2, 2014 at 1:16 pm)His_Majesty Wrote: Lets take away all of the fluff and feathers for a minute. Let's take away all of the technical babble, all of the rhetoric for just a second.

I can't speak for every religion, but I am a Christian theist. Now what does that imply? Well, that would mean that I believe Jesus Christ died on the cross for the sins of mankind, and that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have everlasting life.

That is basically my belief in a nut shell.

Fluff and feathers!

Quote: Now, if you are an atheist, you may find my beliefs laughable, sickening, stupid, etc....which is fine, Christianity isn't for everyone because after all, Jesus said "But the gateway to life is very narrow and the road is difficult, and only a few ever find it." (Matt 7:14).

Glad it's fine, because I can't help it. It is a ridiculous belief in many ways.

Quote:But as an atheist, here is what you have to believe...

I just love it when people tell me what I have to believe. It's like posting a sign that says and now another straw man.

Quote:you have to believe that billions of years ago before humanity, dead matter was floating around in space...and for whatever reason, suddenly, this dead matter "came to life". Not only did it come to life, but it came to life and began thinking, talking, and having sex.

First of all, not believing that a god who always existed brought life into being by magic is not the same as believing that anyone knows how life came about. And life coming out of dead matter is no more unbelievable, in fact less so than either and god said it and puff it happened, or god made us out of clay (dead matter).

Secondly, I know of no scientific hypotheses for the origins of life that involves matter drifting around in space suddenly springing to life, let alone immediately thinking, talking, and having sex. There's a summary here of the current theories about how very simple life may have begun. Wikipedia: Abiogenesis There's a better and broader discussion here: Talk Origins: Abiogenesis

Only religions posit instant complex life complete with language and sex. The explanations vary from god said, fashioning out of clay or water, being shit out by god, or carved out of wood. Think about it. It's all magic.

Quote:Just think about that for a second. This non-living material suddenly CAME TO LIFE. For the life of me, I just can't get myself to believe that, even if I tried. I just don't understand how naturalism/atheism is a more reasonable position than theism.

There always was a being capable of making things spring into existence merely by saying "let there be. . ." Now that's crazy. Think about it.

Quote:You have to believe that a process that can't think or see, created consciousness. So consciousness came from a process that can't think??

I just don't have enough faith to be an atheist.

But you believe that the is an uncreated sentient being that can create life by just saying let there be life? Now that's faith.

(November 2, 2014 at 1:24 pm)Kitanetos Wrote: No. I do not have to accept your misconceived notion of atheism.

You don't have to. I will give you the same definition of atheism that other poster got.

"As commonly understood, atheism is the position that affirms the nonexistence of God. So an atheist is someone who disbelieves in God, whereas a theist is someone who believes in God. Another meaning of 'atheism' is simply nonbelief in the existence of God, rather than positive belief in the nonexistence of God. ... an atheist, in the broader sense of the term, is someone who disbelieves in every form of deity, not just the God of traditional Western theology."

(November 2, 2014 at 1:24 pm)Kitanetos Wrote: False, but it is no shock that most theists believe the theistic rubbish they are taught in a church building instead of paying attention in science class at school.

I was paying attention in science class...5 years of elementary school...3 years of middle school...and 4 years of high school...and I don't ever recall a teacher explaining/demonstrating how life came from non-living material, and how consciousness originated from unconsciousness.

(November 2, 2014 at 1:24 pm)Kitanetos Wrote: Atheism does not require faith. Atheism is understanding that faith is fallible and unnecessary.

"Atheism is understanding that faith is fallible and unnecessary" <--this itself is a faith based statement...yet faith is "fallible and unnecessary"?

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(November 2, 2014 at 1:44 pm)rexbeccarox Wrote: Where in this:

Quote:"As commonly understood, atheism is the position that affirms the nonexistence of God. So an atheist is someone who disbelieves in God, whereas a theist is someone who believes in God. Another meaning of 'atheism' is simply nonbelief in the existence of God, rather than positive belief in the nonexistence of God. ... an atheist, in the broader sense of the term, is someone who disbelieves in every form of deity, not just the God of traditional Western theology."

Do you get this?:

(November 2, 2014 at 1:16 pm)His_Majesty Wrote: But as an atheist, here is what you have to believe...you have to believe that billions of years ago before humanity, dead matter was floating around in space...and for whatever reason, suddenly, this dead matter "came to life". Not only did it come to life, but it came to life and began thinking, talking, and having sex.

What?? It is called "law of excluded middle". If there are only two explanations, and one is negated, the other one wins by default...so if you DON'T believe that God exists, you have to believe that the origin of life/consciousness is best explained by natural processes.

Is that so hard to understand?

(November 2, 2014 at 1:38 pm)His_Majesty Wrote:

(November 2, 2014 at 1:24 pm)Aoi Magi Wrote: Why the heck do I have to believe such nonsense?

Are you an atheist? If you are, according to the wiki passage of "atheism", which cited its source...

"As commonly understood, atheism is the position that affirms the nonexistence of God. So an atheist is someone who disbelieves in God, whereas a theist is someone who believes in God. Another meaning of 'atheism' is simply nonbelief in the existence of God, rather than positive belief in the nonexistence of God. ... an atheist, in the broader sense of the term, is someone who disbelieves in every form of deity, not just the God of traditional Western theology."

Now, this has been the traditional definition of atheism...even though the definition has been revised over the years because its advocates knew just how absurd the position is.

I believe that definition, but I don't believe the stuff about dead matter suddenly coming to life in your OP.

(November 2, 2014 at 1:38 pm)His_Majesty Wrote:

(November 2, 2014 at 1:24 pm)Aoi Magi Wrote: Thankfully we don't believe that either

Well, the forum member "Brian" had just made a post where he was implying that "we" shouldn't believe anything unless it can be scientifically proven, which is naturalism.

So in other words, some people DO believe that.

Again, you didn't suggest naturalism, you suggested spontaneous life generation.

(November 2, 2014 at 1:38 pm)His_Majesty Wrote:

(November 2, 2014 at 1:24 pm)Aoi Magi Wrote: But christianity does believe dust suddenly came to life, began talking, and having sex by magic of sky daddy.

You call the head dog of my belief "Sky Daddy"...I call the head dog of your belief "Mother Nature". Get it? Sky Daddy/Mother Nature?

Ok so your sky daddy is a dog? I do see the resemblance in those three letters, but I don't think he would appreciate that.
And no, nature didn't spontaneously make life or pull out ribs from said life-form to make new life.

(November 2, 2014 at 1:38 pm)His_Majesty Wrote:

(November 2, 2014 at 1:24 pm)Aoi Magi Wrote: I am glad to hear you don't have enough faith. You shouldn't practice atheism because of faith.

Apparently, you do.

Apparently I don't.

As a christian, I assume you believe what was claimed in Genesis. That things were spoken into existence, and god caused a clay sculpture to come to life. It baffles me that theists would complain about atheists believing something came from nothing, when that's exactly what you believe. Incidentally I don't even believe we came from nothing, because nothing has never existed. I suppose I'd have to believe life came from non life because everything in the universe is made of the same stuff. But so what? You believe some immortal creature from outside our universe created a universe by speaking it into existence. How is that any better?

One key benefit of my position is that I have no burden of proof. I'm not trying to sell anything, and I'm certainly not going to kill people who don't believe in evolution or the big bang.

(November 2, 2014 at 1:49 pm)Aoi Magi Wrote: Ok so your sky daddy is a dog? I do see the resemblance in those three letters, but I don't think he would appreciate that.

If he were, I might even reonsider my stance on atheism. Dogs don't make up stupid an disgusting rules.

(November 2, 2014 at 1:45 pm)His_Majesty Wrote: I was paying attention in science class...5 years of elementary school...3 years of middle school...and 4 years of high school...and I don't ever recall a teacher explaining/demonstrating how life came from non-living material, and how consciousness originated from unconsciousness.

If you want to understand how consciousness arose, read Nicholas Humphries.

Abiogenesis is addressed here: http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/abioprob/abioprob.html

School isn't going to teach you everything you need to know, certainly. The biggest lack I see right now in American schools is the lack of a class on critical thinking. Such skills are in desperately short supply.

(November 2, 2014 at 1:45 pm)His_Majesty Wrote: What?? It is called "law of excluded middle". If there are only two explanations, and one is negated, the other one wins by default...so if you DON'T believe that God exists, you have to believe that the origin of life/consciousness is best explained by natural processes.

Is that so hard to understand?

You haven't demonstrated there are only two possible explanations. Is that so hard to understand?

Listen, new guy: you're going to have a really tough time around here if you spend it building straw men. Maybe try asking us what we believe instead of telling us.

(November 2, 2014 at 1:45 pm)His_Majesty Wrote: It is called "law of excluded middle".

1. Please don't tell me what I have to think
2. No, that's not what I think
3. There are religions hundreds if not thousands of years older than Christianity and the Judaism from which is evolved. Practically thinking, your religion is one of the new guys on the block