OK, it's the tree of the knowledge of good and calamity. Why's he making calamity? (It's not just the tree of knowledge, it's knowledge of a specific things, good and evil or calamity if you insist).

Who was claiming trees move...?

The only actions that can be taken are ones god makes possible. So if he makes calamity possible, he is responsible for it, and he is a dick.

Why's he so insistent on setting up ways to fail at stuff? And then making it so you almost certainly will fail.

Rob, are you saying every mistake or accident we make or decision (for that matter) is God's doing?

Doesn't answer any of my questions, but yes. I am.

God knows everything, so he knows what we are going to do from the instant we are born until we die. So we have no actual free will, we can't choose to do something he hasn't foreseen. Therefore he knows all the mistakes we will make when he makes us, and chooses to make us that way.

The problem with this is that foreknowledge and free will are contradictory, so it's either one or the other. The other problem is that if we make mistakes, God has given us the possibility of making mistakes. He needn't have done that. We could just be happy all the time and choose between lovely options. Like in heaven as often described.

We certainly wouldn't need cars or bank accounts.

Remember, (according to you guys) God made all the rules in the first place. So if there's something he has to "work around" then we have a problem.

(November 29, 2014 at 11:21 am)JaceDeanLove Wrote: I have thought this for awhile, but I decided to share. I think the whole Garden of Eden scenario was ENTIRELY God's doing. He created Adam and Eve, and was in control of EVERYTHING. He's supposedly omni-everything. If that's the case, he knew they would eat the fruit. In fact, he saw them eat the fruit. And not only that! He placed the tree in the garden (instead of on a tree in a volcano, on Mars.) In fact, idk why he even made the tree anyway. Secondly, he told Adam and Eve not to eat from it. That makes a lot of people wanna do the opposite. He also let the serpent into the garden, and let him convince Adam and Eve. Remember, God controls ALL of this! Lastly... If Adam and Eve were good, how did they sin? And, if the tree gave them knowledge of right and wrong, how did they know it was wrong to eat from it?? I would like everyone's input. I'm genuinely curious. Thanks.

Jace

Creation was entirely God's doing; the fall of mankind was man's choice; man chose to disobey God and eat the fruit that God specifically instructed them(Adam & Eve) not to.

(December 7, 2014 at 3:23 pm)ChristIsLord Wrote: Creation was entirely God's doing; the fall of mankind was man's choice; man chose to disobey God and eat the fruit that God specifically instructed them(Adam & Eve) not to.

Oh, come on. Why don't you introduce yourself first in the intro forum before posting something we have heard about a gazillion times. Repeating it over and over again doesn't make it suddenly more interesting.

Creation was entirely God's doing; the fall of mankind was man's choice; man chose to disobey God and eat the fruit that God specifically instructed them(Adam & Eve) not to.
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We as His creation cannot do God's part and God WILL NOT do that which he has laid out for us to do. In this case to choose to obey His directive or to disobey.

Adam chose to disobey Gods rule and usher in the fall of man.....our sin nature

Yes Yahweh supposedly created everything, except for the body of water that was already there when he started, then created a couple of people with free will and gave them a choice. when he didn't like their choice he cursed the land with thorns, made childbirth painful, and forbade them from eating the fruit from the Tree of Life. Everything went to crap, and he tried fixing that with a flood. Everything went to crap again, and he killed his only begotten son which some believe is actually himself. Given his admittance that the path to hell is wide, and the path to heaven is narrow, he pretty much still failed to get even half the population of the world to believe he even exists, while the people who actually worship him kill each other over their interpretation of his teachings.

(December 7, 2014 at 3:26 pm)abaris Wrote:

(December 7, 2014 at 3:23 pm)ChristIsLord Wrote: Creation was entirely God's doing; the fall of mankind was man's choice; man chose to disobey God and eat the fruit that God specifically instructed them(Adam & Eve) not to.

Oh, come on. Why don't you introduce yourself first in the intro forum before posting something we have heard about a gazillion times. Repeating it over and over again doesn't make it suddenly more interesting.

I've never stressed that point before and my intention is not to make Gods word "more interesting" but to answer the question that JaceDeanLove was asking.

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(December 7, 2014 at 3:31 pm)Chad32 Wrote: Yes Yahweh supposedly created everything, except for the body of water that was already there when he started, then created a couple of people with free will and gave them a choice. when he didn't like their choice he cursed the land with thorns, made childbirth painful, and forbade them from eating the fruit from the Tree of Life. Everything went to crap, and he tried fixing that with a flood. Everything went to crap again, and he killed his only begotten son which some believe is actually himself. Given his admittance that the path to hell is wide, and the path to heaven is narrow, he pretty much still failed to get even half the population of the world to believe he even exists, while the people who actually worship him kill each other over their interpretation of his teachings.

Actually it was the Tree of Knowledge of Good and evil that God did not want them to eat from.
God did not kill Jesus
God the Son, put on flesh, came down to live and suffer along us and did so without committing a single sin so that He may be presented blameless before the cross.
The RELIGIOUS zealots of the day threw him under the proverbial bus because law precluded them from killing Jesus themselves so they handed Him over to the Romans to do it.
The Romans did the actual killing of Jesus. NOT GOD.

Let me take it one step further....I killed Jesus, I did the first time I sinned
He died for my sins, that I may be reconciled to God the Father who loves me so the He GAVE (not killed) His only begotten Son to die the worst kind of death.....separated from God

I am curious why you guys believe you are automatons?

I am also curious which you would choose for a companion-
One you pre-programed with every attribute you like ( a hi tech robot).
Or a companion who can interact with you from different angles and wants to be with you by their own choice.

(December 7, 2014 at 3:34 pm)ChristIsLord Wrote: God the Son, put on flesh, came down to live and suffer along us and did so without committing a single sin so that he may be presented blameless before the cross.

Makes the story even more absurd as has been said about a million times in different threads. God sacrificed himself to himself if he came down in Jesus' form.

Been there, done that.