Not to us, GC. Someone sacrificing themselves in defense of Hogwarts is just as ridiculous as sacrificing themselves for God.

Harry Potter is just newer....and far better written.

(January 13, 2015 at 8:44 am)Tonus Wrote:

(January 13, 2015 at 2:08 am)Godschild Wrote:

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You're right, however it's the business of the church and when someone who calls them self a Christian and we call them out, why is it you all jump on the bandwagon and question what we have to say?

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As I said above, I take the claims at face value. If a person claims to be Christian and then denies Christ or the Bible, then I figure he's more of a nut than a Christian, but if he professes to follow both then I just go along. The most important thing, to me, is what he believes and why he believes. We have had people here who denied being Christian yet used only the Bible as their source of teaching. Since I do not expect that every person here will make sense, I just shrug my shoulders and move on.

But you do understand that I do not recognize the authority of any individual or church to say who is or is not a Christian, yes? The Bible is too open to interpretation to say that one specific view or the other is the recognizably "true" version. I don't believe in your god or his existence, and I believe that the Bible is just a book of ancient writings cobbled together by men with an agenda that was more political than religious. Thus I don't have any stake in which interpretation is true and which person is following it to the letter. That's for Christians, true or not, to hash out among themselves.

Actually there's no both to it, the Bible is an instruction book for Christian living and a history of why we need Christ. The Gospels tell us about our Christ and the rest of the NT is about the way we are to live as Christians and how we can tell if there's fruit on the tree.
You're right it's the business of the Christian church to determine who may be or may not be a Christian. When we refer to a person being a "true" Christian it is their basic belief we are concerned with not their denominational beliefs, all denominations that are Christian have the same basic belief, period.

GC

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(January 13, 2015 at 2:18 pm)FatAndFaithless Wrote: Not to us, GC. Someone sacrificing themselves in defense of Hogwarts is just as ridiculous as sacrificing themselves for God.

Harry Potter is just newer....and far better written.

As usual you missed the crux of what I said.

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(January 13, 2015 at 9:41 am)robvalue Wrote: Yes, to us saying you are christian means nothing. You are describing a self delusion. Why should we care how people describe delusions? You expect us to demand consistent labelling of an entirely irrational and fictional idea?

You think we believe atheist have deluded themselves, yes we do, you've bought into the lie Satan sold Adam and Eve. You criticize us for believing in something we can't see, yet you can't see you bought into something you can't see and you do not even realize you have.

GC

There is no Satan. There was no Adam, no Eve. All parts of the myth (and the satan bit...might not even be that). The "fruit" of christianity, if I am to take you as an example of a fruit - which I do....is rotten.

(January 13, 2015 at 2:45 pm)Godschild Wrote: You think we believe atheist have deluded themselves, yes we do, you've bought into the lie Satan sold Adam and Eve. You criticize us for believing in something we can't see, yet you can't see you bought into something you can't see and you do not even realize you have.

GC

I wonder if it has ever occurred to you that atheism means that we don't accept any gods. Is this because we are rebelling against Allah and Vishnu and Ahura Mazda and Odin, in addition to your stupid god?

I mean, you should hope we're right, because you're going to hell if your god exists, you know.

(January 13, 2015 at 2:17 pm)Godschild Wrote: The author of the Harry Potter series admits the books are made up, the writers of the Bible gave their lives in defense of it's truth, way big difference.

GC

Given that the writers of the bible were anonymous, I don't think you're in a position to say how they died.

(January 13, 2015 at 5:07 pm)Esquilax Wrote:

(January 13, 2015 at 2:17 pm)Godschild Wrote: The author of the Harry Potter series admits the books are made up, the writers of the Bible gave their lives in defense of it's truth, way big difference.

GC

Given that the writers of the bible were anonymous, I don't think you're in a position to say how they died.

There writers of the bible gave their lives for legends and myths they thought were true or wanted to be true. You can truly believe in bullshit and truly believe that bullshit is is fact.

Humans have fought and died for all sorts of absurdities thinking they were true.

So no one is claiming all of what the writers wrote was a deliberate lie. We are not accusing them of lying, as much as we are accusing them of being mistaken.

I find it hard to accept a book that took over 1,000 year period with over 40 authors and books left out was the result of a divine hand. I do believe humans write fantasy stories because they desire them to be true and most likely combined that by convincing others it is true they gain influence and power.

(January 12, 2015 at 11:47 am)Drich Wrote: Just an open ended question.

What's with blurring the lines between those who claim Christianity and those who actually practice it?

Nobody actually practices Christianity. Even Mother Theresa could be a real bitch, and every Christian I've ever known violates Jesus' edict to pray in private rather than in public. Christians divorce and think nothing of it, and willingly associate with known divorcees.

I tried to live according to Jesus' teachings in the NT, and Christians all thought I was crazy. I remember a pastor once telling me it was irresponsible not to have health insurance, and when I referred him to the Sermon on the Mount - the part where Jesus says God cares for the lilies and the birds, and will care even more for us - he said that's not what it means.

Then I sang "blessed insurance, Jesus is mine!" and he got kind of mad. Christians claim to believe what Jesus said, but just let them catch you trying to live according to it!

(January 13, 2015 at 2:45 pm)Godschild Wrote:

(January 13, 2015 at 2:18 pm)FatAndFaithless Wrote: Not to us, GC. Someone sacrificing themselves in defense of Hogwarts is just as ridiculous as sacrificing themselves for God.

Harry Potter is just newer....and far better written.

As usual you missed the crux of what I said.

You know it's really fucking funny GC that you didn't get the message through FaF's post.

You can't see the own illogical basis of your beliefs being parodied back to you. What a strange man you are.

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(January 13, 2015 at 2:45 pm)Godschild Wrote: You think we believe atheist have deluded themselves, yes we do, you've bought into the lie Satan sold Adam and Eve. You criticize us for believing in something we can't see, yet you can't see you bought into something you can't see and you do not even realize you have.

GC

LOL.

No, dude, just no. You assert that that is the case. You're extending your false belief that those who don't believe as you do are thus wrong and the enemy onto those you've been commanded to believe are wrong.

You remember what this whole train wreck of a thread is about, yes? It's about how you guys get on your horse and ride around proclaiming to hold the 'troof' which has been given exclusively to you. And that if only we believe as you do, we'll get the troof too.

It's called a scam.

You've fallen for it, and we haven't. so you can delude yourself that we're all followers of satan if you want (he doesn't exist either, btw), but that's your problem, not ours. I don't know how many times someone can say this to you, but your beliefs mean jackshit to us. Nothing. You can threaten us with hell, and satan, torture (whatever), but it has no effect on us. They're your beliefs, not ours. Hence why we don't care when someone calls themselves a Christian or not. It's none of our business what you guys believe until you start telling us to believe in the same claptrap as you do.

Fucking dolt.

(January 13, 2015 at 5:07 pm)Esquilax Wrote: Given that the writers of the bible were anonymous, I don't think you're in a position to say how they died.

Well, they're dead. We can assume as much. So in a way they gave their lives.

(January 13, 2015 at 2:45 pm)Godschild Wrote:

(January 13, 2015 at 8:44 am)Tonus Wrote: As I said above, I take the claims at face value. If a person claims to be Christian and then denies Christ or the Bible, then I figure he's more of a nut than a Christian, but if he professes to follow both then I just go along. The most important thing, to me, is what he believes and why he believes. We have had people here who denied being Christian yet used only the Bible as their source of teaching. Since I do not expect that every person here will make sense, I just shrug my shoulders and move on.

But you do understand that I do not recognize the authority of any individual or church to say who is or is not a Christian, yes? The Bible is too open to interpretation to say that one specific view or the other is the recognizably "true" version. I don't believe in your god or his existence, and I believe that the Bible is just a book of ancient writings cobbled together by men with an agenda that was more political than religious. Thus I don't have any stake in which interpretation is true and which person is following it to the letter. That's for Christians, true or not, to hash out among themselves.

Actually there's no both to it, the Bible is an instruction book for Christian living and a history of why we need Christ. The Gospels tell us about our Christ and the rest of the NT is about the way we are to live as Christians and how we can tell if there's fruit on the tree.
You're right it's the business of the Christian church to determine who may be or may not be a Christian. When we refer to a person being a "true" Christian it is their basic belief we are concerned with not their denominational beliefs, all denominations that are Christian have the same basic belief, period.

GC

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(January 13, 2015 at 2:18 pm)FatAndFaithless Wrote: Not to us, GC. Someone sacrificing themselves in defense of Hogwarts is just as ridiculous as sacrificing themselves for God.

Harry Potter is just newer....and far better written.

As usual you missed the crux of what I said.

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(January 13, 2015 at 9:41 am)robvalue Wrote: Yes, to us saying you are christian means nothing. You are describing a self delusion. Why should we care how people describe delusions? You expect us to demand consistent labelling of an entirely irrational and fictional idea?

You think we believe atheist have deluded themselves, yes we do, you've bought into the lie Satan sold Adam and Eve. You criticize us for believing in something we can't see, yet you can't see you bought into something you can't see and you do not even realize you have.

GC

An instruction book? Which part? The part that tells you how to treat slaves? Or the part that tells you to to marry off your daughter to a rapist? Or the acts of genocide?

You have the same problem Muslims do with the Koran. To be civil you really have to ignore the nasty parts of these books. That is the part moderates and liberals of both religions don't want to face. The violent ones get their ideas of morality from the exact same books you do. Difference is they take it word for word. Your human empathy, not the book, is what allows you to skip over the nasty parts and ignore them.

Our species was around long before either of these religions were invented, and even before the Hebrews which stem from polytheism. Our species has always had the ability to be cruel our compassionate. When we do good, that is coming from the empathy and caring side of our evolution. It is not coming from old books of myth.