(January 23, 2015 at 12:56 pm)SteelCurtain Wrote:

(January 23, 2015 at 12:48 pm)Former Humanist Wrote: The atheistic worldview of materialism and naturalism accounting for all we have including non-material entities we occupy as human beings ; the problem of the animate coming from the inanimate. Has any emphirical scientific evidence come about that now addresses this adequately ? Theres a few other reasons that lead me away from Humanism on a more sociological level . Im open though and would put my Humanist T-shirt back on if credibility in it were restored for me.

Just a quick refresher course, as it seems like you've been reading about atheism on Conservapaedia.

Atheism = lack of belief in god(s). Nothing more. There's no such thing as an "atheistic worldview." You can not believe the god claims and have any worldview you want.

And could you expand on the idea of "non-material entities we occupy as human beings?" Are you talking about a soul? Ghosts? Chakra? What makes you think that there are non-material entities at work in the world?

Im aware that atheism means lack of belief in God, but, Secular Humanism which IS atheistic deals with affirmations toward a Worldview including Origins ; this includes Materialism and Naturalism as an explanation. It would seem that if Atheists want to declare a lack of belief in God, then they should posit a suitable cogent alternative , no ? Afterall, we have a finite Universe and we are here on a particular planet that is supremely suitable for our inhabitance --- to me, this begs the question which worldview and origins position lines up best with what we have .

By NON-material entities we occupy, im speaking of Mind, will, logic, reason, abstract thinking and the like. These animate entities aren't made up of material atoms so there must be more to the universe (and us) than just materials. If we were just madeup of materials, then we should be able to construct a Human Being from the materials found on and in earth, but we cant. So, im perplexed by consciousness being unable to come from materials. Maybe in the future we will discover that...I don't know, but something tells me we are comparing apples to oranges and the two shall never gel.

You can be atheist and believe everything is made entirely from jelly. Nothing follows logically from atheism.

The abstract things you speak of exist only as configurations within the physical brain. They aren't entities in their own right, nor is there any reason for them to be.

Mind, logic, abstract thinking, reason - all makings of a huge neural network - why not? They are not the atoms, they are what arises in the sum of their interactions. Consciousness is overrated. I'm with Dennett there. How it is completely and absolutely tied to the functioning of the neural network can be easily observed in the profound changes when the latter is only slightly perturbed by chemicals or electricity.

(January 23, 2015 at 1:08 pm)Former Humanist Wrote: If we were just madeup of materials, then we should be able to construct a Human Being from the materials found on and in earth, but we cant.

But we can. It is called reproduction.

Consciousness is a fucker to be sure. Best ignore it

(January 23, 2015 at 1:10 pm)robvalue Wrote: You can be atheist and believe everything is made entirely from jelly. Nothing follows logically from atheism.

The abstract things you speak of exist only as configurations within the physical brain, they aren't entities in their own right, nor is there any reason for them to be.

This seems like a strange statement to make ; I thought people were in fact Atheists because of a good level of logic and reason. Can u elaborate on this statement you made please ?

If these things i listed are found in the brain, then where in the brain is the mind found , what part of the brain do we find a thought ? And if part of the brain is missing as the result of a tragic accident yet the person survives , then is the Occupant less of a Person therefore ? We still consider him a full Person don't we ? There is something more to a Human Being than just a compilation of atoms slung together over millions of years and if we are in fact 'just atoms' then why should we believe what anyone says since they would have arrived upon it by accident and from atoms which are untrustworthy ? Humans are made up , it seems, of intrinsic capacity toward logic, reason, deducing, deciphering, et al.

---

(January 23, 2015 at 1:15 pm)robvalue Wrote: Consciousness is a fucker to be sure. Best ignore it

I don't think we should just ignore something that is true, fact, and the elephant in the middle of the room should we ? If Atheism is to be believed and followed, then it should be able to answer some of the most basic questions in life ; same applies to Theism / Polytheism / Wiccan / or any other status One takes upon himself. So, we have consciousness on the table ---- how did IT get here ? Whats the most logical explanation based on scientific scrutiny ? Why should consciousness be the 'F er' that it is for atheism as you say ?

(January 23, 2015 at 1:19 pm)Former Humanist Wrote:

(January 23, 2015 at 1:10 pm)robvalue Wrote: You can be atheist and believe everything is made entirely from jelly. Nothing follows logically from atheism.

The abstract things you speak of exist only as configurations within the physical brain, they aren't entities in their own right, nor is there any reason for them to be.

This seems like a strange statement to make ; I thought people were in fact Atheists because of a good level of logic and reason. Can u elaborate on this statement you made please ?

If these things i listed are found in the brain, then where in the brain is the mind found , what part of the brain do we find a thought ? And if part of the brain is missing as the result of a tragic accident yet the person survives , then is the Occupant less of a Person therefore ? We still consider him a full Person don't we ? There is something more to a Human Being than just a compilation of atoms slung together over millions of years and if we are in fact 'just atoms' then why should we believe what anyone says since they would have arrived upon it by accident and from atoms which are untrustworthy ? Humans are made up , it seems, of intrinsic capacity toward logic, reason, deducing, deciphering, et al.

Rob is pointing out that being an atheist doesn't mean you are logical or use reason. There is a correlation between the two but no causation.

Aren't robots nothing more than a specific arrangement of atoms? What if the robots can learn from their environment like we do. Would you then assert that the robots are something more than atoms?

(January 23, 2015 at 1:19 pm)Former Humanist Wrote: This seems like a strange statement to make ; I thought people were in fact Atheists because of a good level of logic and reason. Can u elaborate on this statement you made please ?

This is one way to come to atheism. Using logic and reason can lead to looking at god claims from a critical perspective and arrive to the conclusion that the claims of theists hold no water.

But by no means is logic and reasoning a "tenet" of atheism. There are plenty of dumb ass atheists out there have never seen the inside of a classroom they took seriously. Just check Facebook for confirmation.

(January 23, 2015 at 1:19 pm)Former Humanist Wrote: If these things i listed are found in the brain, then where in the brain is the mind found , what part of the brain do we find a thought ? And if part of the brain is missing as the result of a tragic accident yet the person survives , then is the Occupant less of a Person therefore ? We still consider him a full Person don't we ? There is something more to a Human Being than just a compilation of atoms slung together over millions of years and if we are in fact 'just atoms' then why should we believe what anyone says since they would have arrived upon it by accident and from atoms which are untrustworthy ? Humans are made up , it seems, of intrinsic capacity toward logic, reason, deducing, deciphering, et al.

You keep making these bare assertions. "There is something more to a Human Being," or "Atoms are untrustworthy," or "instrinsic capacity."

We are stretching the limits here of what we can do in an introduction thread. Would you make a thread in the proper forum and lay out these claims with why you believe them to be true?

(January 23, 2015 at 1:29 pm)Surgenator Wrote:

(January 23, 2015 at 1:19 pm)Former Humanist Wrote: This seems like a strange statement to make ; I thought people were in fact Atheists because of a good level of logic and reason. Can u elaborate on this statement you made please ?

If these things i listed are found in the brain, then where in the brain is the mind found , what part of the brain do we find a thought ? And if part of the brain is missing as the result of a tragic accident yet the person survives , then is the Occupant less of a Person therefore ? We still consider him a full Person don't we ? There is something more to a Human Being than just a compilation of atoms slung together over millions of years and if we are in fact 'just atoms' then why should we believe what anyone says since they would have arrived upon it by accident and from atoms which are untrustworthy ? Humans are made up , it seems, of intrinsic capacity toward logic, reason, deducing, deciphering, et al.

Rob is pointing out that being an atheist doesn't mean you are logical or use reason. There is a correlation between the two but no causation.

Aren't robots nothing more than a specific arrangement of atoms? What if the robots can learn from their environment like we do. Would you then assert that the robots are something more than atoms?

A Robot is a creation from an intelligent personal willful source : Man. Man cant infuse the Robot with Mans consciousness...yet we as Human Being have been endowed with this entity called consciousness. How come ? Why ? Why aren't we robotic if accidental compilations of atoms are our cause ? Seems like we should be if Materialism is to be believed.

Welcome to the forum!