Problem is the characteristics of this alleged 'soul' have ostensibly been shown to be properties of the brain/mind.

Memory, perception, emotion, personality, mannerisms, consciousness, morality, beliefs, etc.

Take away all that and any alleged 'soul' is nothing.

(August 23, 2010 at 7:34 am)fr0d0 Wrote: Like I've said, the soul (mainstream Christian understanding) is the esssence of a person not in any way physical. Yes it's a supernatural thing and as such can't be evidenced empirically.

What is the 'essence of a person'? This is too vague to have any meaning. If it does not constitute a person's personality, how is any soul distinct from any other? How is it related to the person from whom it came?

The 'soul' is what people call their misunderstood perception of 'self'. When you turn your thoughts inward and think of yourself (your idea of 'me'), it is easy to imagine that this 'me' exists somewhere outside the body. It actually feels separate from the physical body. It is not, of course... it is completely generated by the brain the central nervous system. When you die, it ceases to be generated, and therefore ceases to 'exist'.

(August 23, 2010 at 11:32 am)Paul the Human Wrote: The 'soul' is what people call their misunderstood perception of 'self'. When you turn your thoughts inward and think of yourself (your idea of 'me'), it is easy to imagine that this 'me' exists somewhere outside the body. It actually feels separate from the physical body. It is not, of course... it is completely generated by the brain the central nervous system. When you die, it ceases to be generated, and therefore ceases to 'exist'.

Paul,

So that means that the soul doesn't exist because it is not religious but it part of myself? I think I am understanding "sighs"

In olden times people used to believe that their inner monologue was god/gods talking to them,( you can see this all the time in Homers ilead).
Later opinion altered to make the inner monologue out as an entity that was you but controlling you, a soul sepperate from the body.
If you have the concept of a sepperate entity that is still in some way you, then it can go off and have fun times without you.
My wife believes this and used to tell me of the spiritual expeditions she used to have when she was asleep(sigh)

(August 23, 2010 at 7:44 am)lrh9 Wrote: Problem is the characteristics of this alleged 'soul' have ostensibly been shown to be properties of the brain/mind.

Memory, perception, emotion, personality, mannerisms, consciousness, morality, beliefs, etc.

Take away all that and any alleged 'soul' is nothing.

Yet all of them are clearly not anything to do with the soul to me, and I'd suggest nothing at all to do with the Christian concept. You've said already lrh9 that your definition is not the same as mine. I don't discount your opinion at all lrh9, it's an interesting idea.

(August 23, 2010 at 3:49 pm)fr0d0 Wrote:

(August 23, 2010 at 7:44 am)lrh9 Wrote: Problem is the characteristics of this alleged 'soul' have ostensibly been shown to be properties of the brain/mind.

Memory, perception, emotion, personality, mannerisms, consciousness, morality, beliefs, etc.

Take away all that and any alleged 'soul' is nothing.

Yet all of them are clearly not anything to do with the soul to me, and I'd suggest nothing at all to do with the Christian concept. You've said already lrh9 that your definition is not the same as mine. I don't discount your opinion at all lrh9, it's an interesting idea.

Kind of hard to feel Hell when you can no longer feel because your brain and body have decomposed.
Kind of hard to have a personal relationship with a God when you can no longer memorize, think, or even exist as an emotional and personality rich being because your brain and body have decomposed.

Face it. Mind/brain characteristics and body characteristics essentially cover what it is to be human. You can introduce no new characteristics by inventing the concept of a soul. Name only one. I'll wait.

I can introduce no new physical characteristics using a non physical descriptor? Because 'soul' is actually descriptive of something.

As you've pointed out, all the characteristics you've associated with 'soul' cannot survive death, and therefore cannot logically be attributed to something which by it's nature survives death.