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What IS good, and how do we determine it?

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What IS good, and how do we determine it?
FatAndFaithless Offline
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#341
RE: What IS good, and how do we determine it?
June 16, 2015 at 1:24 pm (This post was last modified: June 16, 2015 at 1:24 pm by FatAndFaithless.)
Whaaat the hell is a 'metaphysical reality'?

And for real dude, stop it with the 'atheists think X' shit.
In every country and every age, the priest had been hostile to Liberty.
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The Grand Nudger Offline
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#342
RE: What IS good, and how do we determine it?
June 16, 2015 at 1:25 pm
Im sorry, Mystic, but I'm just not pretending.  You can either accept that or continue to pitch straw?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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abaris Offline
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#343
RE: What IS good, and how do we determine it?
June 16, 2015 at 1:25 pm
(June 16, 2015 at 1:16 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: That's horrible! Sad

Yes, it is.

I'm well aware that not all christians are abominations like this one. But the point I'm trying to make is, just being religious isn't a safety belt. The truth of the matter is, you can pick horrible things from the bible and act accordingly. And Kyle, in my opinion, has it absolutely right. These people are brothers in spirit to the Taliban and ISIS. It's only a functioning society preventing them to act on their vileness.

And they feel justified in the same way you feel justified. They only get a different message from the same texts.
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Catholic_Lady Offline
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#344
RE: What IS good, and how do we determine it?
June 16, 2015 at 1:25 pm
(June 16, 2015 at 12:58 pm)whateverist Wrote:
(June 15, 2015 at 7:03 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: The question I have for atheists is how do we know what IS good?

You know how we are all immediately aware of so many things but only a few can be held consciously at any one time?  Well what is 'good' -or, what is more important, what will likely lose your social group's approval- is one of those things.  Now which of the countless factors our brains choose to present for conscious consideration isn't actually up to us.  It happens pre-consciously.  So rather than appeal to a master-of-the-universe (not that there is anything wrong with that), I'd like to describe the apprehension of morally significant factors as a disturbance in the force.  Evolution has resulted in conscious experience and has selected for individuals whose brains present the most salient factors for conscious consideration.

Is that a satisfactory answer?

Very interesting analysis. Thank you for the answer.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly." 

-walsh
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Bad Wolf Offline
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#345
RE: What IS good, and how do we determine it?
June 16, 2015 at 1:27 pm
'Love me or burn in hell' That is what jesus is saying. That is not a choice. You are not choosing hell by not believing. You can't even choose what you believe. It's like if someone were to put a gun to your head and demand your wallet. If you refuse, you aren't choosing to be shot, you aren't committing suicide.
'The more I learn about people the more I like my dog'- Mark Twain

'You can have all the faith you want in spirits, and the afterlife, and heaven and hell, but when it comes to this world, don't be an idiot. Cause you can tell me you put your faith in God to put you through the day, but when it comes time to cross the road, I know you look both ways.' - Dr House

“Young earth creationism is essentially the position that all of modern science, 90% of living scientists and 98% of living biologists, all major university biology departments, every major science journal, the American Academy of Sciences, and every major science organization in the world, are all wrong regarding the origins and development of life….but one particular tribe of uneducated, bronze aged, goat herders got it exactly right.” - Chuck Easttom

"If my good friend Doctor Gasparri speaks badly of my mother, he can expect to get punched.....You cannot provoke. You cannot insult the faith of others. You cannot make fun of the faith of others. There is a limit." - Pope Francis on freedom of speech
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Catholic_Lady Offline
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#346
RE: What IS good, and how do we determine it?
June 16, 2015 at 1:27 pm (This post was last modified: June 16, 2015 at 1:30 pm by Catholic_Lady.)
(June 16, 2015 at 12:58 pm)Rhythm Wrote: So, how about my moral truth, can you deny my moral truth?  Is your god exempt from my moral truth?  Do I seem to be incapable of holding a moral truth as a moral subjectivist?

Well the point of "moral truth" is that there is no  such thing and "my" and "your" moral truth lol. Conflicting things can't both be true. There is only one moral truth.
(June 16, 2015 at 1:05 pm)Cato Wrote:
(June 16, 2015 at 1:02 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: If Christianity taught that torturing children is good, for example, it would completely go against my gut instinct and I would never give it a second thought..

I would have used a different example if I were Catholic.

Why, Cato?
(June 16, 2015 at 1:06 pm)whateverist Wrote:
(June 16, 2015 at 1:02 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Christianity reafirms that this is immoral, and helps me understand *why* it is. If Christianity taught that torturing children is good, for example, it would completely go against my gut instinct and I would never give it a second thought..

I find this very comforting.  One question, why not just go with your gut instinct?  Sounds like you prize it as highly as I do mine, and probably with equal justification.

It helps me determine certain things but cannot show me all the answers. Smile
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly." 

-walsh
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Godscreated Offline
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#347
RE: What IS good, and how do we determine it?
June 16, 2015 at 1:30 pm
(June 16, 2015 at 1:16 am)Kitan Wrote:
(June 16, 2015 at 1:11 am)Godschild Wrote: I never mentioned killing, so why did you? How do you know killing was considered bad in primitive times, were you there. I also never gave a bigoted remark and real can't see how you could possibly have seen one either, could it be a feeling of guilt, just asking not implying.

GC

Along your line of thinking, were you there when Jesus existed; therefore, how do you know he was real?

Yes, I am absolutely following the precise line of reason you used on me.

You don't like it?

How about you start thinking about what you believe or start reasoning properly, you fucking dumbass.

Honestly, I do not have time for dipshits like you.

Try being smart for once.

Yes I'm present now with the living Christ who affirms in my life His reality, He's not gone as you would have Him.

God to know you can read the mind of others, I'll get busy making me an aluminum cap to block that ability. Tongue Seriously how do you know what was thinking, you claim you can so prove it. Here's what I actually was thinking, I simply wanted an answer to a friendly question, don't see any harm in that but, you went off the deep end ranting and shoveling up unpleasant names. In the world of intelligence that type of language is considered a cover up of some deficiency.

GC
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
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Mystic Offline
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#348
RE: What IS good, and how do we determine it?
June 16, 2015 at 1:31 pm
(June 16, 2015 at 1:25 pm)Rhythm Wrote:
Im sorry, Mystic, but I'm just not pretending.  You can either accept that or continue to pitch straw?

Yes you are right, that was a slip. I just think however it is manifest enough to Atheists that we have a soul, but, they've gone on this notion of intellectual superior high ground  to just doubt anything spiritual or metaphysical. I do believe however they do pretend to not understand what spiritual or soul is, yes, they don't believe in it, but they very well understand what it is.
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The Grand Nudger Offline
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#349
RE: What IS good, and how do we determine it?
June 16, 2015 at 1:31 pm (This post was last modified: June 16, 2015 at 1:38 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Quote:Well the point of "moral truth" is that there is no  such thing and "my" and "your" moral truth lol. Conflicting things can't both be true. There is only one moral truth.

None of that really answered my question at all, but I can roll forward anyway.  The trouble we're having...you and I are in this together.....is that there simply -are- more moral truths than just our shared moral truth, we both share the opinion that our shared moral truth is superior, is more moral, is right, is -actually- true...but that doesn't change the -fact- that they disagree.  If someone asked you why you held to this moral truth...what would you tell them, in what ways do you think it would be different than what I would tell them?

Surely "god said so" is low on that list......it hasn't convined -you- when other religions have used it, has it?  I'd be willing to bet that both you and I place "god said so" in pretty much the same place, when it comes to demonstrations of a moral truth or objective standard.  Hell, if god hadn't said so......you and I still do, right?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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Mystic Offline
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#350
RE: What IS good, and how do we determine it?
June 16, 2015 at 1:33 pm
(June 16, 2015 at 1:31 pm)Rhythm Wrote: If you have to deny -reality- in order to maintain your beliefs about it...I think that your beliefs are in trouble.
If materialism is true, there would be no way for us to even know if we have free-will or not at the present moment. So a lot of our beliefs would be in trouble with "reality" as an Atheist perceives.
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What IS good, and how do we determine it?

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