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RE: What IS good, and how do we determine it?
June 20, 2015 at 2:19 pm
(June 20, 2015 at 1:53 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: That Catholic Church has no other "interpretation" of this.
So your interpretation is not in accordance with the Church's?
(June 20, 2015 at 1:53 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: But you are correct that certain things (un important things) can be interpreted in different ways so long as the overall take away is the same. For example, someone is free to believe in the story of genesis literally, or allegorically. The overall message is that God is behind all of creation and that humans have free will and that we are called by God to resist temptation and take the moral path. Whether you believe that there was a snake and an apple, etc, is just details.
I'd rather try to nail Jell-O to the wall. I suppose this is exactly why Christianity has 40,000 splinters.
And that's one reason, but not the only one (getting back to the thread topic) that I assert that belief in the Christian god in no way means that morality is objective.
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RE: What IS good, and how do we determine it?
June 20, 2015 at 2:20 pm
(June 20, 2015 at 2:15 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Lust = making the decision to objectify someone in your mind by having sex with them, etc
Which is an entirely natural reaction. Even if you enter into a relationship with someone at some point, the first impression is necessarily visual attraction. The objectifying part is only inserted to create yet another sin.
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RE: What IS good, and how do we determine it?
June 20, 2015 at 2:26 pm
(This post was last modified: June 20, 2015 at 4:35 pm by rexbeccarox.
Edit Reason: 30/30- please read the rules
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(June 20, 2015 at 2:13 pm)Rhythm Wrote: (June 20, 2015 at 1:53 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: For example, someone is free to believe in the story of genesis literally, or allegorically.
No, they are not...you might want to start researching your own doctrine before you post...you have a history of misrepresenting the position of the church.
You -must- believe in a literal Adam and Eve, period. You - believe that all human beings are descended from these two "first parents", period. You -must- believe that the fall of man was an actual -event-, period.
You are correct. But exactly how all of that played out is left up for individual assessment. And it can be far from believing that the universe was made in seven days 6 thousand years ago, that Adam and Even just solidified from dust and from a rib of the other, that the garden of Eden existed as a paradise, that God commanded them not to eat fruit from a specific tree, that a snake tempted them, and that they ate an apple.
That story can be taken either allegorically or literally.
As I have told you before Rhythm, you are an intelligent individual, and I can see that. But I promise you, I have a better understanding of my own religion than you do. ;-)
The link below is a Catholic apologist speaking about the story of Jonah and the whale as an example:
{snip}
When it comes to OT stories, Catholics are free to believe in the allegorical or literal sense.
Please read the rules- no posting links until you've been a member for 30 days and contributed 30 posts- rexbeccarox
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
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RE: What IS good, and how do we determine it?
June 20, 2015 at 2:27 pm
(June 20, 2015 at 1:06 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Quote:Are people just livestock in your brain, Randy? How callous are you?
Why are you even asking? Did you miss his bit about god managing a human chicken farm? Culling the "spiritually diseased"....
You're right, of course. It just amazes me how poorly he represents his cult.
"There remain four irreducible objections to religious faith: that it wholly misrepresents the origins of man and the cosmos, that because of this original error it manages to combine the maximum servility with the maximum of solipsism, that it is both the result and the cause of dangerous sexual repression, and that it is ultimately grounded on wish-thinking." ~Christopher Hitchens, god is not Great
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RE: What IS good, and how do we determine it?
June 20, 2015 at 2:28 pm
(This post was last modified: June 20, 2015 at 2:30 pm by Catholic_Lady.)
Quote: (June 20, 2015 at 2:19 pm)Parkers Tan Wrote: [quote='Catholic_Lady' pid='969613' dateline='1434822803']
That Catholic Church has no other "interpretation" of this.
So your interpretation is not in accordance with the Church's?
I meant the Church has no other interpretation of what Jesus meant by looking at a woman lustfully, other than the one I provided. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
(June 20, 2015 at 2:19 pm)Parkers Tan Wrote: I'd rather try to nail Jell-O to the wall. I suppose this is exactly why Christianity has 40,000 splinters.
And that's one reason, but not the only one (getting back to the thread topic) that I assert that belief in the Christian god in no way means that morality is objective.
That is fine. I respect your opinion.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
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RE: What IS good, and how do we determine it?
June 20, 2015 at 2:31 pm
(June 20, 2015 at 2:26 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: When it comes to OT stories, Catholics are free to believe in the allegorical or literal sense.
Which is a pretty recent development too. When I was growing up in the 60ies and early 70ies, we were still encouraged to take them for real events.
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RE: What IS good, and how do we determine it?
June 20, 2015 at 2:35 pm
(June 20, 2015 at 2:20 pm)abaris Wrote: (June 20, 2015 at 2:15 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Lust = making the decision to objectify someone in your mind by having sex with them, etc
Which is an entirely natural reaction. Even if you enter into a relationship with someone at some point, the first impression is necessarily visual attraction. The objectifying part is only inserted to create yet another sin.
I agree that it is natural. It is also natural for me to lash out at my husband when I'm upset about something that he is no part of.
But we, as humans and not cows, can still make the choice. We can choose to fantasize about having sex with the people we see on the street while our spouse is at home waiting for us, or we can choose to simply acknowledge their sexiness, and move on. I can choose to be snippy with my husband when I'm in a bad mood about something else, or I can choose to put aside my natural feelings and treat him with kindness.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
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RE: What IS good, and how do we determine it?
June 20, 2015 at 2:37 pm
(This post was last modified: June 20, 2015 at 4:41 pm by rexbeccarox.
Edit Reason: removed link
)
(June 20, 2015 at 2:26 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: You are correct. But exactly how all of that played out is left up for individual assessment. And it can be far from believing that the universe was made in seven days 6 thousand years ago, that Adam and Even just solidified from dust and from a rib of the other, that the garden of Eden existed as a paradise, that God commanded them not to eat fruit from a specific tree, that a snake tempted them, and that they ate an apple.
That story can be taken either allegorically or literally.
As I have told you before Rhythm, you are an intelligent individual, and I can see that. But I promise you, I have a better understanding of my own religion than you do. ;-)
The link below is a Catholic apologist speaking about the story of Jonah and the whale as an example:
{snip}
When it comes to OT stories, Catholics are free to believe in the allegorical or literal sense. No, stop. You must, if you wish to retain any -shred- of intellectual honesty and catholic faith, desist in this immediately. This is not -my- request, -I- hope you stop believing. This is simply what your church demands of you. You clearly do -not- have a better understanding of your faith..and that is an all-to-common misunderstanding that theists have when they decide to throw their lot in with the wolves.
But go ahead, tell me more about jonah and the whale...which I didn't comment upon. Show us that in addition to being ignorant of your own faith you are ignorant regarding basic logic.
removed link
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RE: What IS good, and how do we determine it?
June 20, 2015 at 2:42 pm
(This post was last modified: June 20, 2015 at 4:41 pm by rexbeccarox.
Edit Reason: removed link
)
(June 20, 2015 at 2:37 pm)Rhythm Wrote: (June 20, 2015 at 2:26 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: You are correct. But exactly how all of that played out is left up for individual assessment. And it can be far from believing that the universe was made in seven days 6 thousand years ago, that Adam and Even just solidified from dust and from a rib of the other, that the garden of Eden existed as a paradise, that God commanded them not to eat fruit from a specific tree, that a snake tempted them, and that they ate an apple.
That story can be taken either allegorically or literally.
As I have told you before Rhythm, you are an intelligent individual, and I can see that. But I promise you, I have a better understanding of my own religion than you do. ;-)
The link below is a Catholic apologist speaking about the story of Jonah and the whale as an example:
{snip}
When it comes to OT stories, Catholics are free to believe in the allegorical or literal sense. No, stop. You must, if you wish to retain any -shred- of intellectual honesty and catholic faith, desist in this immediately. This is not -my- request, -I- hope you stop believing. This is simply what your church demands of you.
Rhythm, I mean 0 disrespect to you and have appreciated your contribution to my thread. But to this I will only say the following:
If you think you know the Catholic faith better than me, then it would logically follow that you have no reason to ask me questions about it. Why not stop wasting your time here and save your productivity for a different thread?
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
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RE: What IS good, and how do we determine it?
June 20, 2015 at 2:42 pm
(June 20, 2015 at 2:35 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: But we, as humans and not cows, can still make the choice. We can choose to fantasize about having sex with the people we see on the street while our spouse is at home waiting for us, or we can choose to simply acknowledge their sexiness, and move on. I can choose to be snippy with my husband when I'm in a bad mood about something else, or I can choose to put aside my natural feelings and treat him with kindness.
But it's walking a fine line. First, animals make choices too. They don't mate with everyone, but only with those partners that are willing to have them. Some even have lifelong relationships. Second, in my mind you're doing nothing bad to your relationship by imagining having sex with another person. Nobody's feelings get hurt, if you don't act on that impulse. And third, even the snippy part can be argued, since sometimes it's better for a relationship to have it out than to pretend. It's all situational and there's no user manual on how to act as a human being.
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