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RE: What IS good, and how do we determine it?
June 20, 2015 at 3:53 pm
(June 20, 2015 at 3:33 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: We are more intelligent, have more self awareness and more self control than animals, so we are held to a higher standard.
There are plenty of animals who kill their own specie's babies (or their own babies), yet we don't think of them as cruel because we know that they don't know any better. We would not have the same leniency with people, because whether we know it or not, we do hold people to a higher standard. As we should.
And if the early humans knew nothing about God or sexual morality, they too would be held to a lower standard.
Curious that you fail to apply the same reasoning to the ancients and their standards for morality.
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RE: What IS good, and how do we determine it?
June 20, 2015 at 3:53 pm
(June 20, 2015 at 3:51 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Semantics aside, do you think that animals have the ability to contemplate doing the moral things verses doing the immoral thing in the same level that humans can?
Look above for my viewing recommendations as well as my answer to that.
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RE: What IS good, and how do we determine it?
June 20, 2015 at 3:54 pm
(This post was last modified: June 20, 2015 at 3:58 pm by Catholic_Lady.)
(June 20, 2015 at 3:42 pm)abaris Wrote: (June 20, 2015 at 3:33 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: There are plenty of animals who kill their own specie's babies (or their own babies), yet we don't think of them as cruel because we know that they don't know any better. We would not have the same leniency with people, because whether we know it or not, we do hold people to a higher standard. As we should.
And if the early humans knew nothing about God or sexual morality, they too would be held to a lower standard.
No, there aren't than many species killing their own babies. They don't kill their own babies at all, but the babies of other males. And the ones that do that do it for the exact same reasons, human rulers of old have done the same in the past. Securing their own position when taking over.
They sure do. http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/...s-animals/
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
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RE: What IS good, and how do we determine it?
June 20, 2015 at 3:57 pm
(June 20, 2015 at 3:54 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: They sure do. http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/...s-animals/
So look no further than the bible to find a human example for the same behavior. The Moses story springs to mind.
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RE: What IS good, and how do we determine it?
June 20, 2015 at 3:59 pm
(This post was last modified: June 20, 2015 at 4:03 pm by Catholic_Lady.)
(June 20, 2015 at 3:57 pm)abaris Wrote: (June 20, 2015 at 3:54 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: They sure do. http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/...s-animals/
So look no further than the bible to find a human example for the same behavior. The Moses story springs to mind.
That's fine. Just showing you that indeed it does happen and when it does, we don't hold those animals to the same standards as we would a human mother who kills her new borns.
(June 20, 2015 at 3:53 pm)Cato Wrote: (June 20, 2015 at 3:33 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: We are more intelligent, have more self awareness and more self control than animals, so we are held to a higher standard.
There are plenty of animals who kill their own specie's babies (or their own babies), yet we don't think of them as cruel because we know that they don't know any better. We would not have the same leniency with people, because whether we know it or not, we do hold people to a higher standard. As we should.
And if the early humans knew nothing about God or sexual morality, they too would be held to a lower standard.
Curious that you fail to apply the same reasoning to the ancients and their standards for morality.
Their standards of morality were wrong. But since they had no way of knowing any better, they are not held to the same standards as a Catholic today who knows and believes the laws but chooses to proceed anyway.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
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RE: What IS good, and how do we determine it?
June 20, 2015 at 4:03 pm
(June 20, 2015 at 3:59 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: That's fine. Just showing you that indeed it does happen and when it does, we don't hold those animals to the same standards as we would a human mother who kills her new borns.
Because animals, in most countries, are still considered items by law. Which speaks louder about our disrespect than it does about our superiority.
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RE: What IS good, and how do we determine it?
June 20, 2015 at 4:06 pm
(June 20, 2015 at 4:03 pm)abaris Wrote: (June 20, 2015 at 3:59 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: That's fine. Just showing you that indeed it does happen and when it does, we don't hold those animals to the same standards as we would a human mother who kills her new borns.
Because animals, in most countries, are still considered items by law. Which speaks louder about our disrespect than it does about our superiority.
So you think an animal who kills her babies should spend time in prison in the same way that a human who killed her own babies should? (assuming she was not insane)
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
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RE: What IS good, and how do we determine it?
June 20, 2015 at 4:11 pm
(This post was last modified: June 20, 2015 at 4:14 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
I'm sorry, and ignoring that you lost your shit in that comment, but.....are you actually expecting people to be consistent? Would you consider yourself to be a person who recognizes irony, or upon whom much irony is lost? I'm in the latter camp, myself.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: What IS good, and how do we determine it?
June 20, 2015 at 4:20 pm
(This post was last modified: June 20, 2015 at 4:22 pm by abaris.)
(June 20, 2015 at 4:06 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: So you think an animal who kills her babies should spend time in prison in the same way that a human who killed her own babies should? (assuming she was not insane)
My point is, we shouldn't feel superior as long as we don't understand what makes other species tick and what they are thinking. I certainly hope, the thinking part isn't up for debate, since they all have brains. We always had a tendency to look down at seemingly inferior beings. In the past even at fellow humans.
As I said before. As long as there are endless wars and predatory behavior among humans, there's really no reason to feel that special.
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RE: What IS good, and how do we determine it?
June 20, 2015 at 4:51 pm
(June 20, 2015 at 3:46 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: (June 20, 2015 at 3:35 pm)abaris Wrote: He's an ass plain and simple. But as long as it's just thoughts, nobody's actually hurt. It has no consequences in the real world.
Right, so there it is! You just made a judgment about someone's character based purely on something that is going on inside his head.
Since we can make judgements about someone's character based on what is in their head, don't you think it is perfectly reasonable for us God believers to assume God can too?
A person with a heart filled with hate for others will not enter heaven even if he never acted on that hate outside his own head. You may call that "thought crime" but I find it perfectly reasonable, and you just did the same thing above.
You may not agree that having a lustful heart is wrong, but can you see now what we mean about how it matters what is in a person's heart?
The only thing the heart does is pump blood. Jesus effing christ.
Nolite te bastardes carborundorum.
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