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RE: What IS good, and how do we determine it?
June 22, 2015 at 12:16 pm
(This post was last modified: June 22, 2015 at 12:19 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(June 22, 2015 at 11:58 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: No, we can say/do what we'd like. We are not forced to act or think according to Church teaching. We always have a choice.
Ofc you have a"choice".....your money or your life?
"Hey Bobby Sue...do whatever you like, just know that my friend over here is going to use this power drill to make a nice tight hole in your kneecaps if you don't do what I say."
Some god, some church, some choice. 
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: What IS good, and how do we determine it?
June 22, 2015 at 12:17 pm
(June 22, 2015 at 11:58 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: (June 22, 2015 at 6:58 am)Stimbo Wrote: Maybe Catholics have to say that. Could start a nasty precedent otherwise.
No, we can say/do what we'd like. We are not forced to act or think according to Church teaching. We always have a choice.
Yeah - it was a joke.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
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RE: What IS good, and how do we determine it?
June 22, 2015 at 12:26 pm
(June 22, 2015 at 12:14 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: (June 22, 2015 at 11:47 am)rexbeccarox Wrote: Wait... what's that you say? Morality is subjective?
Becca, I have spent the last few pages explaining the difference between the morality of objective act and a person's moral culpability.
Check out my post 1505 for more clarification.
Nolite te bastardes carborundorum.
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RE: What IS good, and how do we determine it?
June 22, 2015 at 12:27 pm
(June 22, 2015 at 12:01 pm)Neimenovic Wrote: So....basically you're saying whether someone did something wrong or not depends on the circumstances. Which means whether something is wrong depends on the circumstances.
Where does the objective part come in?
No, that is not what I am saying.
Please read carefully.
The mentally insane person who went into psychotics and killed 10 people at the mall, still did a wrong deed. This means that killing 10 people at the mall is still wrong. What he did was still bad. Walking into a mall and killing 10 innocent people is still bad.
The subjective part is this man's culpability. (Perhaps it is the word culpability that some people are struggling with here.)
This man should be pronounced innocent by reason of insanity. His culpability is lessened or eliminated because, even though his action was still immoral, he did not realize he was doing it and so cannot be held accountable the same way a sane person would.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
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RE: What IS good, and how do we determine it?
June 22, 2015 at 12:30 pm
(This post was last modified: June 22, 2015 at 12:35 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
We have read carefully, we see what you're saying. You're a moral subjectivist, it's the term "moral subjectivist", and not the concept..to which you object. Your description of subjective culpability is -our- description of subjective morality.
Understand?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: What IS good, and how do we determine it?
June 22, 2015 at 12:32 pm
Right! And he killed those people because he didn't think it was wrong! And why is that?
Because.....wait for it....morality is subjective! Ta-dah!
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RE: What IS good, and how do we determine it?
June 22, 2015 at 12:32 pm
(June 22, 2015 at 12:14 pm)Neimenovic Wrote: (June 22, 2015 at 12:03 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Well like I told Robvalue. Even though you don't believe in God, you have to try to look at it through my lenses if you want to undertand my views. I believe God created morality. So morality is whatever He made them as.
Defined by a person = subjective. God is a person. If it comes from god, it's subjective. It's what the word means.
How do you know you're right?
defined by a person =/= created by God
Remember when I said I believe morality was created by God?
Remember, I do not believe God is a person. Perhaps the word defined was not the best word for me to use. Created would be much more accurate.
Quote:Hmmm... can you explain how? If this man was put in jail for the rest of his life at that point instead of killed, he would still not be able to offend again. Unless you mean the child would be able to recover better if the man was dead verses behind bars? Is this what you mean?
Suicide. Child abuse victims are prone to suicide.
[/quote]
I understand this. My question was, would the boy be more prone to suicide if his offender is behind bars for life verses if he was dead?
If so, do you support the death penalty for child molesters?
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
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RE: What IS good, and how do we determine it?
June 22, 2015 at 12:32 pm
I just thought of something: what do you call someone who impregnates a woman without her consent?
Nolite te bastardes carborundorum.
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RE: What IS good, and how do we determine it?
June 22, 2015 at 12:34 pm
(June 22, 2015 at 12:16 pm)Neimenovic Wrote: (June 22, 2015 at 12:03 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Self defense is not murder. ;-)
Ok, killing people isn't always wrong. Yes?
Correct.
Like I said last night, I believe the only time it is morally permissible to kill another person is in self defense, and in justifiable war (which I believe to be very few, btw).
I do not believe in the death sentence.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
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RE: What IS good, and how do we determine it?
June 22, 2015 at 12:36 pm
(June 22, 2015 at 12:32 pm)rexbeccarox Wrote: I just thought of something: what do you call someone who impregnates a woman without her consent?
Darren.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
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