Time

[IATIA]

Did you watch the video AFTT47 presented?

[Excited Penguin]

Did you watch the video AFTT47 presented?

Should I watch it again? I saw it a long time ago first and then again, not so long ago. I know what it's about.

[IATIA]

How is time related to motion exactly?

Let us try one step at a time and make sure you understand each one.

1) In a void, there is only one photon. Nothing else. Is it moving?

[AFTT47]

The reality you just experienced still exists, just not your perception of it any longer. The reality that replaced the one you are no longer perceptive of existed prior to your perception of it.  All realities (possibilities) exist.  You only perceive any one reality at a time and that is based on the overall QM in play.  As long as you are in any single reality, nothing changes and if you were to stay in that reality for 'a million years', you would never be aware of the 'passing of time'.  The 'passing of time' is the change of perception from one 'reality' to the next.

This is great but you're starting to sound like a New-Age nutjob, to be honest. Is this actualy science, that every possible reality exists and only our perception of the changing of these "slides" can be called time, but outside of our subjectivity, time doesn't make any sense -- might I say, to the universe itself?

You need to grasp that the reality of the universe is in no way dependent on your ability to intuit it or understand it. It doesn't care if it fits into your personal philosophy, common sense or comfort zone. It simply is. Science is determining what this reality is through cold logic and experimentation - free from human bias. And science says some things about time that are pretty hard to grasp but they have been tested and demonstrated to be true. That's what a logical person goes by. Not by his/her biases and limitations but by what has been demonstrated to be true.

[Excited Penguin]

How is time related to motion exactly?

Let us try one step at a time and make sure you understand each one.

1) In a void, there is only one photon.  Nothing else.  Is it moving?

I think so, from what little understanding of physics I think I have. That is, yes, it's moving in a void.

I also know that QM theory reveals that matter pops in and out of existence in a random manner and thus your previous thoughts on how it does away with the concept of time.

[Excited Penguin]

This is great but you're starting to sound like a New-Age nutjob, to be honest. Is this actualy science, that every possible reality exists and only our perception of the changing of these "slides" can be called time, but outside of our subjectivity, time doesn't make any sense -- might I say, to the universe itself?

You need to grasp that the reality of the universe is in no way dependent on your ability to intuit it or understand it. It doesn't care if it fits into your personal philosophy, common sense or comfort zone. It simply is. Science is determining what this reality is through cold logic and experimentation - free from human bias. And science says some things about time that are pretty hard to grasp but they have been tested and demonstrated to be true. That's what a logical person goes by. Not by his/her biases and limitations but by what has been demonstrated to be true.

I know that and I completely agree. I think you misunderstood my general attitude. I was saying that from what I gathered, from what IATIA said, time was simply a human construct and independent of the way the universe actually worked. Am I wrong in any way?

Also, please don't take this the wrong way, I might be naive in posing this question, but how exactly did scientists ever bypass their own human biases in order to come up with an objective representation of the world?

This is exactly why I frown upon those that say philosophy is dead, as if science did away with it. After all, all science does is observe and predict - and that's all very well, but what about the day it won't be able to predict anymore, or it will do so but not really, that is, it will be caught in it's own -majestic- circular reasoning. What if it already is ? These are all epistemological questions and they pertain to philosophy - it might be rash to do away with them just yet.

Sorry about the rant. Did I mention I tend to not make any sense when I don't know what I'm talking about?

[IATIA]

1) In a void, there is only one photon.  Nothing else.  Is it moving?

I think so, from what little understanding of physics I think I have. That is, yes, it's moving in a void.

How do you know it is moving? There is nothing to measure against. For all intents and purposes, it could just as easily be stationary.

There are now two photons in this void. the distance between them does not change. Are they moving?

[Excited Penguin]

I think so, from what little understanding of physics I think I have. That is, yes, it's moving in a void.

How do you know it is moving?  There is nothing to measure against.  For all intents and purposes, it could just as easily be stationary.

There are now two photons in this void.  the distance between them does not change.  Are they moving?

I see. Thank you for clearing that up. 

As for your second question: No. I don't think so. -- How could they be moving since the distance between them doesn't change and there's no third (moving) object to compare their potential movement against?

But here's where you muddied the waters. I didn't presuppose that we are talking about a completely empty universe, for all intents and purposes. You didn't specify that. If that's the case, and there are just these two photons in this emply world then how come the observer? Where does he come in? Is it truly a void if there's someone to observe it? How do you observe this information without light? Wouldn't light pass through this void, therefore "contaminating" it and possibly changing the stationary pose of the two photons?

[Excited Penguin]

This is insanely fun - sorry if I'm being obtuse... Maybe I should study physics on my own... I'm not sure if I have the vocation to take up a course in physics at an university, so it would be better if I studied it in my own dilletante way. Do you guys have any good recommendations? The only books I ever read about physics, I think, are Krauss' A Universe from Nothing and Hawking's A Brief History of Time. I also watched a couple of documentary-Tv-Series, like Cosmos(the new version), a bit of the series behind that little youtube video presented earlier in the thread(certainly that, since I remember it so vividly), Through the Wormhole...

[IATIA]

As for your second question: No. I don't think so. -- How could they be moving since the distance between them doesn't change and there's no third (moving) object to compare their potential movement against?

But here's where you muddied the waters. I didn't presuppose that we are talking about a completely empty universe, for all intents and purposes. You didn't specify that. If that's the case, and there are just these two photons in this emply world then how come the observer? Where does he come in? Is it truly a void if there's someone to observe it? How do you observe this information without light? Wouldn't light pass through this void, therefore "contaminating" it and possibly changing the stationary pose of the two photons?

Do not get ahead of yourself. I am trying to wrap your mind around this whole time thing.

Now. You are in this void with the two photons. Of course the distance between you and the photons is increasing at the speed of light, but is it the photons that are moving or are you moving or are you and the photons moving?