Interested in Socialism

[Secular Elf]

Okay, a recent argument with my sister has catapulted my interest in socialism. I know the basic gist of it, a collective organization of control of means of production and the distribution of wealth, more or less. Her being a Conservative (which drives me up the wall) she thinks socialism is all bad, my argument is that is not (current programs in America being the result of socialistic influence are the 40 hour work week, the illegality of child labor, social security and food stamps, etc., all good things). I want to learn more. Besides the obvious articles by Wikipedia and Encyclopedia Britannica, can anyone give me any pointers or suggestions for good reading material on the subject, either on the Internet or in any good public library (things such as history of socialism, economic theories of socialism, socialist programs in other countries, successful socialist states, failed socialist states, as well as democratic socialism)? I want to know as much about this subject as I can.

[downbeatplumb]

Okay, a recent argument with my sister has catapulted my interest in socialism.  I know the basic gist of it, a collective organization of control of means of production and the distribution of wealth, more or less.  Her being a Conservative (which drives me up the wall) she thinks socialism is all bad, my argument is that is not (current programs in America being the result of socialistic influence are the 40 hour work week, the illegality of child labor, social security and food stamps, etc., all good things).  I want to learn more.  Besides the obvious articles by Wikipedia and Encyclopedia Britannica, can anyone give me any pointers or suggestions for good reading material on the subject, either on the Internet or in any good public library (things such as history of socialism, economic theories of socialism, socialist programs in other countries, successful socialist states, failed socialist states, as well as democratic socialism)?  I want to know as much about this subject as I can.

Socialism is at it's heart society working for the common good rather than for the benefit of a few. In America you have a society which is run to support and is largely controlled by a few rich people, it left true democracy behind ages ago and is now an Oligarchy.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-echochambers-27074746

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

One of my own favourites is 'Capitalism, Socialism, and Democracy' by Joseph Schumpeter.  It's a very well known work, so it shouldn't be hard to find.

Basically, Schumpeter predicts that capitalism, because of its unarguable success, will lead to corporatism, a model in which corporations and corporate-like entities will have an undue influence on politics and economics.  This, in turn, will cause more (and more far-reaching) social welfare programmes in capitalist economies - due to a general feeling that governments are being 'bought' - , eventually giving way to socialism in some form or other.

The book is very readable.  I especially like the tone - Schumpeter is neither advocating for socialism nor bemoaning the demise of capitalism.  He is analysing the trends he saw in the 1940s and 50 and extrapolating them for the future.

Boru

[Secular Elf]

Thanks guys. Sounds like a good start. If anyone else has any more suggested reading material, please let me know, or would like to discuss socialism in this thread, please continue.

[Dystopia]

Ahem - Start by Marxist writers, particularly Marx himself, as most if not all of them reference socialism and eventually most experiences the world had with communism were socialist - There's not a huge difference between socialism and communism and the former is mostly seen as a process to reach the latter even if it is a more desirable system for one's lifetime compared to capitalism. Usually, what we call regulating and redistributing wealth without abolishing the market and private property is social democracy. Don't let people tell you that they're socialist if they support private property and the existence of the market, that's BS and a massive contradiction, either you're a socialist and want to reform the entire system and erase the market, or you're not and you inevitably lean towards some form of liberalism like both liberals and conservatives do, unless you want to follow the fascist route and support corporatism/corporativism which is highly underrated.

[Shinagami]

"Don't let people tell you that they're socialist if they support private property and the existence of the market."

aka, Bernie Sanders and his dimwitted supporters. lol.

[WorldWarKorea]

Socialism = Good
Communism = bad
At least, that's all I know about politics

[abaris]

Basically, Schumpeter predicts that capitalism, because of its unarguable success, will lead to corporatism, a model in which corporations and corporate-like entities will have an undue influence on politics and economics.  This, in turn, will cause more (and more far-reaching) social welfare programmes in capitalist economies - due to a general feeling that governments are being 'bought' - , eventually giving way to socialism in some form or other.

It's hard to argue with his first claims. We already have corporatism in the Western world. The second part about more social welfare programmes being introduced is where he's wrong. For one because there no longer is an opposing system such as the communist block. The curve winds downwards as far as welfare programmes are concerned. Wherever conservatives are in power they try to abolish what already was in place for decades.

Second, there's the global economy. Which makes it much easier to outsource and to starve national economies and the workforce. We constantly hear about cutting the minimum wages, so corporations don't move their sweatshops overseas. To what end, since someone has to buy the shit they're producing - prefarably in the West.

So, going by the development of the last two or three decades, I can't come to the same conclusions as Schumpeter. Socialism in some form or the other isn't on the horizon. I rather see something like what was called Manchester capitalism in the not too distant future.

[downbeatplumb]

"Don't let people tell you that they're socialist if they support private property and the existence of the market."

aka, Bernie Sanders and his dimwitted supporters. lol.

I support socialism but also think there is a place for the market.
Socialism does not work for all parts of the economy and neither does the market.
I would argue for balance.

[Marsellus Wallace]

Socialism is a great idea in itself, very idealistic, but will never work because it depends on a crucial core values that do not exist in most people, honesty and integrity.
plus, socialism removes competition which in a result will remove quality. Look at china, copy cat country with slave workers.

Right now in my country, i'm suffering from the results of a socialist regime that eventually crumbled in failure.