Posts: 28261
Threads: 522
Joined: June 16, 2015
Reputation:
90
RE: How the MH370 Flaperon Floated
October 20, 2015 at 8:25 pm
Barnacles (specifically goose or gooseneck) grow in intertidal zones and do not need to be constantly submerged.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barnacle
http://www.marinebio.net/marinescience/0...y/tphi.htm
Boeing states that the flaperon is buoyant.
"The source said Boeing investigators feel confident the piece comes from a 777 because of photos that have been analyzed and a stenciled number that corresponds to a 777 component. A component number is not the same as a part number, which is generally much longer.
Images of the debris also appear to match schematic drawings for the right wing flaperon from a Boeing 777. A flaperon helps the pilot control the aircraft. It is lightweight and has sealed chambers, making it buoyant."
http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/30/world/mh37...stigation/
I'll let you determine how this impacts the discussion.
Being told you're delusional does not necessarily mean you're mental.
Posts: 597
Threads: 133
Joined: March 17, 2012
Reputation:
5
RE: How the MH370 Flaperon Floated
October 20, 2015 at 9:19 pm
(This post was last modified: October 20, 2015 at 10:06 pm by mralstoner.)
(October 20, 2015 at 8:25 pm)mh.brewer Wrote: Barnacles (specifically goose or gooseneck) grow in intertidal zones and do not need to be constantly submerged.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barnacle
http://www.marinebio.net/marinescience/0...y/tphi.htm
That's interesting but not about the species of barnacle found on the flaperon: Lepas anatifera (or Pelagic Goose Barnacle).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lepas_anatifera
Quote:http://www.centralcoastbiodiversity.org/...ifera.html
Habitat & Range
The pelagic goose barnacle is not truly an intertidal species: it is found on floating objects in the pelagic (open) ocean, but can found by beachcombers when its host object, such as driftwood and other debris, is washed ashore. This generally causes mass mortality, unless the object is washed back out into the open ocean.This species is found nearly everywhere in the world, though it is more common in tropical and subtropical areas and is unable to reproduce if it drifts into waters that are too cold.
Similar Species
The goose neck barnacle, or goose barnacle (Pollicipes polymerus), may be mistaken for the pelagic goose barnacle only in name as the two species are very distinct. The goose neck barnacle has numerous plates, compared to the two of the goose barnacle.
So there are two very different types of goose barnacles.
Quote:http://www.wallawalla.edu/academics/depa...ifera.html
Lepas anatifera
Common name(s): Pelagic goosneck barnacle, Pelagic goose barnacle
Description: This gooseneck barnacle ... Attaches to floating objects such as driftwood, glass, or plastic. It has no notch on the side that borders the scutum. The plates are covered with fine striations.
How to Distinguish from Similar Species: Mitella polymerus, the other goosneck barnacle commonly found intertidally, has more than 10 plates in the capitulum and attaches to rocks.
Posts: 6946
Threads: 26
Joined: April 28, 2012
Reputation:
83
RE: How the MH370 Flaperon Floated
October 20, 2015 at 10:48 pm
There is so much horseshit in this thread.
I have spent a significant amount of time at periscope depth, so the quoted bit about the difficulty of building something that 'floats' while fully submerged just below the surface is absurd.
Conspiracy nuts in this case seem to be getting their asses kicked by buoyancy, thermal stratification and underwater convection currents.
Posts: 597
Threads: 133
Joined: March 17, 2012
Reputation:
5
RE: How the MH370 Flaperon Floated
October 20, 2015 at 11:37 pm
(This post was last modified: October 20, 2015 at 11:39 pm by mralstoner.)
(October 20, 2015 at 10:48 pm)Cato Wrote: I have spent a significant amount of time at periscope depth, so the quoted bit about the difficulty of building something that 'floats' while fully submerged just below the surface is absurd.
So, given that we have scientists saying that it's physically impossible to build something that is buoyant but remains submerged near the surface (and remains in this state while drifting for thousands of kilometers), are you going to explain the physics of it? I won't hold my breath.
Posts: 30129
Threads: 304
Joined: April 18, 2014
Reputation:
92
RE: How the MH370 Flaperon Floated
October 20, 2015 at 11:46 pm
Even something as large as a US nuclear missile submarine (~600' long IIRC) is sensitive to even a quart of water being added or subtracted from the buoyancy system.
In fact, dialing in the precise amount of water is difficult enough they don't actually bother; the sub relies on fins and tabs and planes for precise depth control, and the buoyancy is only approximately set.
(I'm not a squid, I probably mungled the lingo a bit, my apologies to those who noted it)
The granting of a pardon is an imputation of guilt, and the acceptance a confession of it.
Posts: 22927
Threads: 26
Joined: February 2, 2010
Reputation:
106
RE: How the MH370 Flaperon Floated
October 21, 2015 at 1:52 am
(This post was last modified: October 21, 2015 at 1:52 am by Thumpalumpacus.)
(October 20, 2015 at 7:54 pm)mralstoner Wrote: (October 20, 2015 at 7:38 pm)Parkers Tan Wrote: How easy or hard is it to hack that data? And I assume you mean they stick the flaperon in a tunnel until it tore up, not off, because you'd just sais it'd been remover in that hypothesis.
What sort of wind speed would be needed to damage an integral piece like that?
No, you could easily construct a surrounding structure on which to remount the flaperon, so it could rip off at high speeds in a wind tunnel. I have no idea about wind speeds or wind tunnels. I know that NASA has some, so I presume that China/Russia has them.
I would imagine that the wind tunnels, which of course the Chinese and Russians both have built, would have to generate very high speeds in order to tear it off. Given that they help in controlling roll, they are likely built to endure the 560mph cruise speed of the 777, and are most likely stressed for a significantly higher speed. What sorts of wind tunnels do the Russians or Chinese have that can generate, say, 750mph?
(October 20, 2015 at 7:54 pm)mralstoner Wrote: How hard is it to hack the data? Tricky one. It requires a few conditions (1) access to the electronics bay via a hatch at the front of first class (2) you would need to plug in some fake hardware/software and (3) only certain planes and certain satellite units are hackable. So, it's not easy, but it is possible. The hackers would have to be very "sophisticated" and know exactly what plane they were hijacking.
What would happen to systems like INS in the downtime? Would a computer reboot be necessary? What would that do to the avionics?
I think the simpler explanation is that it fell into an ocean noted for its strong and unpredictable currents, broke up on impact, and most of the wreckage is likely at the seafloor.
Posts: 597
Threads: 133
Joined: March 17, 2012
Reputation:
5
RE: How the MH370 Flaperon Floated
October 21, 2015 at 2:15 am
(This post was last modified: October 21, 2015 at 2:15 am by mralstoner.)
(October 21, 2015 at 1:52 am)Parkers Tan Wrote: What sorts of wind tunnels do the Russians or Chinese have that can generate, say, 750mph?
No idea, but it's a safe assumption that whatever America has, China and Russia are trying to go one better.
Quote:http://www.nasa.gov/audience/forstudents...ls-k4.html
What Types of Wind Tunnels Does NASA Use?
Some wind tunnels test aircraft at very slow speeds. But some wind tunnels are made to test at hypersonic speeds. That is more than 4,000 miles per hour!
China is reportedly working on a hypersonic missile, and there's a youtube about a Chinese hypersonic wind tunnel (not sure if it's large enough for a flaperon). But it's a safe bet that China has the technology to fake a flaperon blow off.
Posts: 597
Threads: 133
Joined: March 17, 2012
Reputation:
5
RE: How the MH370 Flaperon Floated
October 21, 2015 at 2:58 am
(This post was last modified: October 21, 2015 at 3:15 am by mralstoner.)
(October 21, 2015 at 1:52 am)Parkers Tan Wrote: What would happen to systems like INS in the downtime? Would a computer reboot be necessary? What would that do to the avionics?
As I understand it:
- The plane is totally controllable from the electronics bay; you can disable cockpit controls.
- The plane went 100% electronically dark shortly after it left Malaysian airspace. No comms whatsoever.
- It stayed electronically dark but was tracked by radar as it traveled left.
- Shortly after it left radar coverage, the satellite comms strangely turned back on (rebooted). But no messages were sent or received apart from the hourly handshake/pings to keep a channel open. These pings contained just enough data to track the plane's path. And this is the data suspected of being faked by the hijackers.
So there was enough data to track the plane, but not in real time. It's almost as if someone wanted to leave a trail of bread crumbs (leading investigators in the wrong direction).
Quote:http://jeffwise.net/2015/07/13/the-myste...ot-part-2/
The Mysterious Reboot, Part 2
“At 18:22, MH370 vanished from primary radar coverage over the Malacca Strait. Three minutes later—about the amount of time it takes the Satellite Data Unit (SDU) to reboot—the satcom system connected with Inmarsat satellite 3F-1 over the Indian Ocean and inititated a logon at 18:25:27.”
After it left radar coverage, it was effectively in the clear, untraceable. It could have gone anywhere. And yet strangely the little satellite pings came back on.
I don't know what INS means. And I'm not sure about what systems need to be rebooted to commandeer the plane from the electronics bay.
Posts: 28261
Threads: 522
Joined: June 16, 2015
Reputation:
90
RE: How the MH370 Flaperon Floated
October 21, 2015 at 1:35 pm
(October 20, 2015 at 9:19 pm)mralstoner Wrote: Quote:http://www.centralcoastbiodiversity.org/...ifera.html
Habitat & Range
The pelagic goose barnacle is not truly an intertidal species: it is found on floating objects in the pelagic (open) ocean, but can found by beachcombers when its host object, such as driftwood and other debris, is washed ashore. This generally causes mass mortality, unless the object is washed back out into the open ocean.This species is found nearly everywhere in the world, though it is more common in tropical and subtropical areas and is unable to reproduce if it drifts into waters that are too cold.
Similar Species
The goose neck barnacle, or goose barnacle (Pollicipes polymerus), may be mistaken for the pelagic goose barnacle only in name as the two species are very distinct. The goose neck barnacle has numerous plates, compared to the two of the goose barnacle.
OK, fine, got the wrong barnacle. Didn't you just contradict the OP statement that the barnacles only grow on submerged objects? That it is "found on floating objects"?
Being told you're delusional does not necessarily mean you're mental.
Posts: 597
Threads: 133
Joined: March 17, 2012
Reputation:
5
RE: How the MH370 Flaperon Floated
October 22, 2015 at 6:50 am
(October 21, 2015 at 1:35 pm)mh.brewer Wrote: Didn't you just contradict the OP statement that the barnacles only grow on submerged objects? That it is "found on floating objects"?
That species of barnacle only grows in the sea. So that means they only grow only floating objects. However, they only grow below the water line on those floating objects. There's usually a clear water line above which they don't grow, as shown in a few pictures here:
http://jeffwise.net/2015/10/09/the-flape...on-riddle/
Quote:Pelagic - definition of pelagic by The Free Dictionary
www.thefreedictionary.com/pelagic
ic. (pə-lăj′ĭk) adj. Of, relating to, or living in open oceans or seas rather than waters adjacent to land or inland waters:
That's why they are called "pelagic" barnacles, because they don't grow on the shore, or above the water line.
|
