Evidence for Christianity

[Minimalist]

Human rights developed within a Christian west

"Human Rights" developed as a result of the Enlightenment which was a throwing off of the superstition which dominated Europe after the fall of Rome.

Prattle on about your bullshit all you like but it wasn't until the power of the church was broken that human rights began to be a consideration. Try to remember that you catholic assholes gave the West "the divine right of kings" not the Declaration of Indenpendence or the Declaration of the Rights of Man.

[LastPoet]

They have gone from holy men to protagonism burglars, what to expect Min?

[DeistPaladin]

Their [the gay] life span is proof enough [that it is dangerous as a lifestyle], not to mention their rate of HIV etc.

Higher rates of suicide, victimization by hate crimes and general stress of being a pariah might factor into life expectancy. These things would disappear if the same rules applied to straights and gays (and bis, thank you).

As I think I pointed out before, lesbians have virtually zero vulnerability to HIV and other STDs. Even a monogamous and faithful heterosexual woman can pick up AIDS if she has a philandering husband. Gays of either gender in a stable, monogamous relationship are much less at risk than promiscuous heterosexuals. This line of reasoning will get you nowhere.

The thing is homosexuality itself states that sexulaity is a subjective matter, and that kind of attitude leads men to question all sexual taboos, and conclude they are all just convention.

This is called the "slippery slope" logical fallacy.

The implication here is we might be in danger of later doing away with laws against rape, child molestation, etc. Unlike anti-sodomy laws, there is a clear victim with rape or pedophilia and so moral prohibitions against predatory behavior have a much more rational and solid foundation.

But the vast majority of people believe that there are moral rights and wrongs, dealing with sexuality too.

As do I.

I believe the same rules apply in the bedroom as outside of it. They can be summed up in three admonishments:

1. Act with integrity.
2. Respect the rights of others.
3. Take responsibility for your actions.

Anything that violates any of these rules is what I consider to be "morally wrong". This is a natural system of morality, based on the recognition that questions of morality deal with how we treat each other as sentient beings.

if civilization for the last 2000+ years, over most all of the world, has condemend homosexuality.

This logical fallacy is called "appeal to popularity". Perhaps a dash of "appeal to antiquity" thrown in. Do I need to explain?

Human rights developed within a Christian west, this is just a fact. Now perhaps it could have developed under different terms, but it did not! And in my opinion now that we are moving away from Chrsitianity we will soon see Human Rights disappear, as there is no such thing as a right when there is no such thing as a thing which supercedes governments. Rights are grounded in the idea that we are endowed by our Creator with UNALIENABLE rights. Without an endower rights are just laws, or strong laws.

The greatest obscenity ever committed by Christian apologetics is the attempt to claim that human rights or democracy owe their existence to Christianity.

Seriously, this argument is not just logically ridiculous or based on a faulty understanding of human history, it's a disgusting claim.

From the time of Constantine to even as late as the modern era, Christianity has done everything in its power to fight against freedom and human rights. Christianity propped up the "divine right of kings" (Romans 13). Christianity supported slavery and the Bible has many passages that regulate the treatment of slaves. Luke's Jesus teaches that disobiedient slaves should be beaten (12:46) and that kings should kill those who don't wish to be ruled (19:22-27). During the Dark Ages, the heyday of Catholic power, the society they created was one of tyranny and inequality.

Search the Bible in vein for any references to "inalienable rights" given by our Creator. You won't find them. There are only admonishments for obedience. The Christian god is the god of kings, tyrants and slave owners. The Christian god himself is a tyrant who tortures people eternally for thought crimes and desires not just blind obedience but constant sycophantic praise. The Creator referenced by America's DOI is the one envisioned by deism.

Democracy, equality and human rights were only made possible once Christianity's power was broken, starting with the Age of Enlightenment. The progress has been slow over the centuries and Christianity has been dragged, kicking and screaming, the whole way. Even today, I suspect that Christian leaders would take us back to their golden age, if only they could.

For Christianity to even try to claim responsibility for the very thing they fought so hard against is not just wrong, not just a lie, but an obscenity.

[bjhulk]

A lot of people say there is no evidence for Christinaity or theism in general. This is empircally false. There is a load of evidence for Theism. However, none of the evidence is conclusive. But things like reports of an empty tomb, down to the person on the side of the street who claimed to have a vision of God, to the "healer" going around healing people. Yes I know these could be illusions or we don't say God gave cancer etc. But just becuase there are rational explanations for what appears, at least in some sense, to be supernatural, that does not mean its not supernatural.

The convictions of billions is a good deal of evidence too. Once again not conclusive, as numbers do not mean that one is right. But its evidence.

There is also the crisis of life that leads many to the belief in God. That is all men are born broken into a broken world. We do that which we do not want to do and we don't do that which we would like to do, e.g. we wish we would read more or eat less. Further there is a lot of sad things going on in the world. The world is broken. We are born into this broken world broken, but there is something that does not make sense within us, life, and a desire for meaning. We all desire for there to be intrinsic value. Further we beleive there is intrinsic value a priori. Everyone grows up saying such IS right and such IS wrong in and of itself. Now we can learn that what we thought was nature was actually convention, and often this is the case, and of course for the atheist this is always the case. However, this is the crisis: brokeness and a desire for reason/meaning. This leads men to reationally conclude that there must be a God who gives meaning to those things which have no meaning within the rational realm, like intrinsic value, and an answer to the brokeness.

Anyway feel free to post more evidence for God, or perhaps if you are the type, you know 'em, loud as a motor bike but wouldn't bust a grape in a fruit fight, you can post a bunch of slurs and insults directed towards theists, or you can post why you beleive such and such evidence is lacking to the point of absurdity, or perhaps its lacking to the point that you are not willing take on that belief.

In Christ,

Signature: Being a lover of freedom, when the revolution came in Germany, I looked to the universities to defend it, knowing that they had always boasted of their devotion to the cause of truth; but, no, the universities immediately were silenced. Then I looked to the great editors of the newspapers whose flaming editorials in days gone by had proclaimed their love of freedom; but they, like the universities, were silenced in a few short weeks….
.
Only the Church stood squarely across the path of Hitler’s campaign for suppressing truth. I never had any special interest in the Church before, but now I feel a great affection and admiration because the Church alone has had the courage and persistence to stand for intellectual truth and moral freedom. I am forced thus to confess that what I once despised I now praise unreservedly.
- Albert Einstein, Time magazine, 23rd December, 1940 p. 38

God is the important one, not Christianity. If it wasn't for God, the false religion of Christianity wouldn't be able to deliver me the scriptures and prophesies to read for God. Do you actually believe this religion has something to do with finding the saints and making them sinless?

[Minimalist]

"God" is merely the product that religion sells.

And it doesn't even have a money-back guarantee.

[KichigaiNeko]

bjhulk....GET PROFESSIONAL HELP...seriously!

[Justtristo]

"Human Rights" developed as a result of the Enlightenment which was a throwing off of the superstition which dominated Europe after the fall of Rome.

Prattle on about your bullshit all you like but it wasn't until the power of the church was broken that human rights began to be a consideration. Try to remember that you catholic assholes gave the West "the divine right of kings" not the Declaration of Independence or the Declaration of the Rights of Man.

Agreed

[bjhulk]

"God" is merely the product that religion sells.

And it doesn't even have a money-back guarantee.

God is who planned everything, including false religions to keep everyone deceived.

---

bjhulk....GET PROFESSIONAL HELP...seriously!

You're the one who needs help, especially in the near future.

[Minimalist]

"God" is merely the product that religion sells.

And it doesn't even have a money-back guarantee.

God is who planned everything, including false religions to keep everyone deceived.

---

Yeah, yeah...every religious nut job swears that HIS GOD is the real one. You are typical of the breed, pal. Deluded.

Grow up. There is no sky daddy looking out for you. You are on your own.

[bjhulk]

"God" is merely the product that religion sells.

And it doesn't even have a money-back guarantee.

God is who planned everything, including false religions to keep everyone deceived.

---

Yeah, yeah...every religious nut job swears that HIS GOD is the real one. You are typical of the breed, pal. Deluded.

Grow up. There is no sky daddy looking out for you. You are on your own.

Just because you don't know the true God doesn't mean that there isn't one. You are very selfish to think that no God exists.