Posts: 67296
Threads: 140
Joined: June 28, 2011
Reputation:
162
RE: Why More Americans Want to Own Guns
February 20, 2016 at 11:40 am
(This post was last modified: February 20, 2016 at 11:44 am by The Grand Nudger.)
Which ones, specifically? It's not so much an issue of who they come from as to what his comments were designerd for. To get a laugh. To get a laugh comedians take liberties with fact and context. This is expected, and probably necessary to humor. Taking liberties with fact and context is not necessary, however, to policy making...and is probably counterproductive. This thread has been an excersize in all of the liberties taken with context and fact in the gun control debate...and look at how poorly our policies have been working......the two might be related.....
I got a laugh, it didn't cause me to rethink my views or address some question or issue that my views are formed upon.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Posts: 1494
Threads: 0
Joined: July 26, 2014
Reputation:
14
RE: Why More Americans Want to Own Guns
February 20, 2016 at 11:45 am
(February 20, 2016 at 11:40 am)Rhythm Wrote: Which ones, specifically?
The points he makes about people having guns to defend their homes. Also I think he's right that a gun ban would be effective against the type of mass shootings we have had in America, I really don't find anything wrong with what he said .
Posts: 1817
Threads: 18
Joined: April 22, 2011
Reputation:
17
RE: Why More Americans Want to Own Guns
February 20, 2016 at 11:57 am
Figures I've seen quoted: 300,000,000+ Americans. 300,000,000+ guns in America. (This last quote from a gun proponent.) Most Americans don't own one gun.
Posts: 67296
Threads: 140
Joined: June 28, 2011
Reputation:
162
RE: Why More Americans Want to Own Guns
February 20, 2016 at 11:58 am
(This post was last modified: February 20, 2016 at 12:14 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
As I said, liberties with fact and context..not wrong, because they aren't meant to be accurate, they're meant to be funny. Not -even- wrong, to borrow the phrase.
People don't actually have guns for home defense. Their use tells you, with better accuracy, what people have guns for... than what they say they have guns for on an NRA poll or internet convo. I don't have guns for home defense, but I have many guns, and my ownership of those guns is not predicate on a justification of home defense in any case, nor is the ownership of those who -do- have guns for self defense predicate on that justification. It's a complete non-issue in context to the gun debate, so how can it -possibly- be a point in that debate? If the "home defense" crowd is wrong and being ridiculous, it doesn't matter. If the home defense crowd is right and absolutely not silly.....it still doesn't matter.
Gun bans probably would be effective against mass shootings (they have been elsewhere)..though I doubt that their effect wuld be as total as it;s been seen to be in some other nations, but they wouldn't do anything to our gun problem..which is that people are committing suicide and getting murdered, while it would come at a great fundamental cost in liberty and a gross disservice to anyone -not- currently engaged in or previously convicted of criminal acts. It's an emotionally charged issue where one can appeal to a statistically insignificant "problem" as a means of painting their opposition in a corner where they might be labeled as callous. It's a lever, the "problem" is not actually that mass shootings occur, the problem is that people have guns..and that's the problem which proponents of this sort seek to rectify- because they will plainly -not- address the problem of suicide and murder. There are even better ways to solve the mass shooting problem specifically, and they don't require a challenge to the 2nd amendment...but those aren't suitable, because they don't address the -actual- problem those people see. Guns. This is emotional blackmail, not sound debate or policy making.
It can be made very funny as a caricature of our gun problem, gun policy, and gun debate..though, which is what jeffries did. I'm sure this surprises no one, that a comedian made a funny.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Posts: 1494
Threads: 0
Joined: July 26, 2014
Reputation:
14
RE: Why More Americans Want to Own Guns
February 20, 2016 at 12:08 pm
(February 20, 2016 at 11:58 am)Rhythm Wrote: As I said, liberties with fact and context..not wrong, because they aren't meant to be accurate, they're meant to be funny. Not -even- wrong, to borrow the phrase.
People don't actually have guns for home defense. Their use tells you, with better accuracy, what people have guns for... than what they say they have guns for on an NRA poll or internet convo. I don't have guns for home defense, but I have many guns, and my ownership of those guns is not predicate on a justification of home defense in any case, nor is the ownership of those who -do- have guns for self defense predicate on that justification.
Gun bans probably would be effective against mass shootings (they have been elsewhere)..but they wouldn't do anything to our gun problem..which is that people are committing suicide and getting murdered, while it would come at a great fundamental cost in liberty. It's an emotionally charged issue where one can appeal to a statistically insignificant "problem" as a means of painting their opposition in a corner. This is emotional blackmail, not sound policy making.
I agree with you, I do not support a gun ban because I do not think it fixes the problem. I have already stated in this thread that I think the way you fight crime and violence is by improving health, happiness, economic status, and the education of the people. Now of course his act does no encompass every aspect of the gun debate and there are good arguments for and against guns, but the parts he does touch on I agree with.
Posts: 67296
Threads: 140
Joined: June 28, 2011
Reputation:
162
RE: Why More Americans Want to Own Guns
February 20, 2016 at 12:15 pm
(This post was last modified: February 20, 2016 at 12:19 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Meh, I suppose I do too, I just see it as more of a way to ease the tension by painting a comedic picture than as a description of any fact of any matter in that debate. He's making jokes about the gun narrative, culturally, which this thread and the stats we have has shown us, is mostly fantasy itself.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Posts: 1314
Threads: 14
Joined: December 1, 2015
Reputation:
9
RE: Why More Americans Want to Own Guns
February 20, 2016 at 1:47 pm
(February 19, 2016 at 2:34 pm)Gawdzilla Wrote: General note: It is possible to look up "strawman fallacy" so as to not commit this particular bit of stupidity in the future.
Not that I have my hopes up, of course.
What do they call an idiot who is educated? (HINT: He's still an idiot if he refused to learn anything).
Mr. Hanky loves you!
Posts: 69247
Threads: 3759
Joined: August 2, 2009
Reputation:
259
RE: Why More Americans Want to Own Guns
February 23, 2016 at 4:37 pm
Meanwhile the carnage continues..... and people keep asking "why does this happen here?"
http://www.rawstory.com/2016/02/shooting...-children/
Quote:Shooting rampage shocks Phoenix as man guns down four family members — including young children
Angry nuts with guns.
Posts: 67296
Threads: 140
Joined: June 28, 2011
Reputation:
162
RE: Why More Americans Want to Own Guns
February 23, 2016 at 4:46 pm
(This post was last modified: February 23, 2016 at 4:48 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
You know, when they investigate these incidents, they mostly find that the perps were most definitely not nuts. Just assholes. Crazy people aren't shooting up daycares or their house, believe it or not. Calculating people with full command of their faculties are. Murderers, not co-victims of lunacy.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Posts: 69247
Threads: 3759
Joined: August 2, 2009
Reputation:
259
RE: Why More Americans Want to Own Guns
February 25, 2016 at 9:19 pm
Another crazy bastard.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/re...-1.2544160
Quote:As many as seven people killed in shooting at Kansas company and up to 20 injured; gunman shot dead
Even in fucking Kansas there never seems to be one of these so-called "good guys with a gun" when you need one!
How can that be, 'murrica?
|
