Shariah: Is it "barbaric"?

[Oldandeasilyconfused]

- Machiavellian-like laws that allowed approximately 80 man, women, children to be imprisoned and then burned alive. Little babies coughing blood and their mothers couldn't do anything.

WHAT the FUCK are you talking about? You speak ex rectum.


EVEN if your claim were true,your argument is tu quoque (appeal to hypocrisy) and irrelevant to the question of whether Sharia is barbaric in principle.My view is that it is indeed barbaric in the same way parts Mosaic law are barbaric. The difference is that as far as I know, it's been centuries since Christians stopped putting people to death for moral offences such as adultery. That such extreme punishments still occur,even "rarely" is shameful. As is the fact that Muslim women are not equal with men in every way before the law and within Muslim societies generally.

However,that's only the opinion of a foreign kafir, none my business what other countries choose to do,unless they threaten my country. Nor to be honest do I care any more than I care about say the US and its idiotic gun culture.

[Zen Badger]

As I mentioned earlier, anyone can pick out the most negative evidence to prove a point. What you choose to do is to select incidents in poverty-stricken nations where the people are living under extreme tyranny.

Why don't you take a look at the republic of Congo with secular laws, a caravan of 200 men travel to nearby cities and rape any human they find:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8650112.stm

And this proves that Islam is a religion of peace, tolerance and equality how???

Similarly, there is absolutely nothing you can say that can ever justify the punishments that the children and women of Waco, Texas felt in 1993.

Yet another example of religious fundie whackjobs.
Not much of an argument R, we're atheists here> we don't care for any sort of religion.

Once again, stoning is a rare occurrence........ in fact such a punishment is not really mentioned in the Quran.

Amnesty International and similar organisations think otherwise, and I'll believe what they say over you.

When it occurs, it is usually in nations/cultures that are living under tyranny. These people are suppressed and take it out on one another. This kind of stuff happens in any nation/culture that is suffering economically and socially.

No, actually, it is happening under theocratic tyrannies.
And whilst the koran might not mention stoning, it is a hadith.

Isn't it........

[reverendjeremiah]

are you the forum bot on this site?

No, Cain is becoming a respected member of our community, unlike yourself. So why dont you do us a favor and pack your barbaric and superstitious veiws up and swing over to some Taliban forum. I am sure they will love you over there.

As I mentioned earlier, anyone can pick out the most negative evidence to prove a point. What you choose to do is to select incidents in poverty-stricken nations where the people are living under extreme tyranny.

No, everything you mentioned was obviously blown out of proportion, and one thing you mentioned now has to be done because of your brother Islamists and their violent jihad against everything that is reasonable.

Why don't you take a look at the republic of Congo with secular laws, a caravan of 200 men travel to nearby cities and rape any human they find:

The congo is an authoritarian regime, you know, just like the ones you Muslims want to prop up everytime you garner a majority. They mistreat their women over there..you know, like your Quran commands.

Similarly, there is absolutely nothing you can say that can ever justify the punishments that the children and women of Waco, Texas felt in 1993.

yeah... and if the muslims were in charge of handling Waco they would have GLADLY stoned all of the women and children publicly at a football game for worshipping David Koresh...probably after raping them in the streets repeatedly.

Once again, stoning is a rare occurrence........ in fact such a punishment is not really mentioned in the Quran.

Nice try, but you are in a forum where people are MUCH MORE educated in religion than the believers are, which makes us atheists and skeptics. this is a typical ploy from extremist Muslims who try to hide the reality of the situation by merely acting as if the koran is the ONLY book they gather their laws from. In reality the koran is merely the base of their laws, and the HADITHS are added upon the base law as well.

STONING In Islam
Further information: Namus, Rajm, Koran, and Hadith
Islamic Sharia Law is based on the Koran, the hadith, and the biography of Mohammed. Shia and Sunni hadith collections differ because scholars from the two traditions differ as to the reliability of the narrators and transmitters and the Imamah. Shi'a sayings related to stoning can be found in Kitab al-Kafi,[9] and Sunni sayings related to stoning can be found in the Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim.[10]
Based on this, in several Muslim countries, such as Afghanistan, Iran, Nigeria and Saudi Arabia, adultery is punishable by stoning.
The Koran forbids all sexual intercourse outside the marital bond as sinful, but makes no distinction between adultery and fornication and in both cases the punishment is flogging 100 times for those found guilty.[11] Stoning (rajm) as a punishment for adultery is not mentioned in the Koran, so some modernist Muslim scholars like Quran alone Muslim Scholars take the view that stoning to death is not an Islamic law.[12]
According to the Hanbali jurist Ibn Qudamah, "Muslim jurists are unanimous on the fact that stoning to death is a specified punishment for the married adulterer and adulteress. The punishment is recorded in number of traditions and the practice of Muhammad stands as an authentic source supporting it. This is the view held by all Companions, Successors and other Muslim scholars with the exception of Kharijites."[13]

Do you always lie this much, or are you fucking ignorant to your own hateful religion?

In hadith (sayings)
Sahih Muslim, Book 17, Chapter 6: Stoning to Death of Jews and Other Dhimmis In Cases of Adultery, Number 4216: Jabir b.'Abdullah reported that Allah's Apostle stoned (to death) a person from Banu Aslam, and a Jew and his wife.[14]
Sahih Bukhari, Volume 2, Book 23: Funerals, Number 413: Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Umar: The Jew brought to the Prophet a man and a woman from amongst them who have committed (adultery) illegal sexual intercourse. He ordered both of them to be stoned (to death), near the place of offering the funeral prayers beside the mosque." [15]
Sahih Bukhari, Volume 3, Book 50: Conditions, Number 885: Narrated Abu Huraira and Zaid bin Khalid Al-Juhani: A bedouin came to Allah's Apostle and said, "O Allah's apostle! I ask you by Allah to judge My case according to Allah's Laws." His opponent, who was more learned than he, said, "Yes, judge between us according to Allah's Laws, and allow me to speak." Allah's Apostle said, "Speak." He (i .e. the bedouin or the other man) said, "My son was working as a laborer for this (man) and he committed illegal sexual intercourse with his wife. The people told me that it was obligatory that my son should be stoned to death, so in lieu of that I ransomed my son by paying one hundred sheep and a slave girl. Then I asked the religious scholars about it, and they informed me that my son must be lashed one hundred lashes, and be exiled for one year, and the wife of this (man) must be stoned to death." Allah's Apostle said, "By Him in Whose Hands my soul is, I will judge between you according to Allah's Laws. The slave-girl and the sheep are to be returned to you, your son is to receive a hundred lashes and be exiled for one year. You, Unais, go to the wife of this (man) and if she confesses her guilt, stone her to death." Unais went to that woman next morning and she confessed. Allah's Apostle ordered that she be stoned to death

When it occurs, it is usually in nations/cultures that are living under tyranny. These people are suppressed and take it out on one another. This kind of stuff happens in any nation/culture that is suffering economically and socially.

And it is EXTREMELY RARE that a government made from a muslim majority country is ever anything BUT tyranical. History is NOT on your side, so your lies stand out even more. You disgust me. Please leave this forum.

However,that's only the opinion of a foreign kafir, none my business what other countries choose to do,unless they threaten my country. Nor to be honest do I care any more than I care about say the US and its idiotic gun culture.

Yup, I feel the same way about the brits who gladly handed over their freedoms along with their spines...and now it looks like they are getting ready to hand over their government to the muslims within a few decades.

[Rayaan]

How does killing your daughter for being a rape victim "strengthen the society"?

Firstly, only the instigator of the rape is to be killed, not the victim of the rape. Secondly, what I meant by "strenghening the society," is that the death penalty is there to ensure the safety of the society so that adultery doesn't occur more frequently. If a person chooses to sin in privacy, whatever that sin is, even homosexuality/adultery, then it is between him and God, and the sin can be erased if he repents. However, the moment his wrong action becomes publicized, or if it involves physically hurting another person - then a punishment can be enforced upon the sinner depending on the crime, evidence, and number of witnesses - and this is done mainly for the benefit of the rest of society in the long run. As an example, the way that God has made the body is that, as soon as bacteria are detected in the bloodstream, antibodies are immediately released to destroy the bacteria to prevent harm to the rest of the body. In a similar manner, there are certain sins which are publicly condemned in Islam to ensure the safety of society.

Well, it's an incredibly pathetic contract, isn't it? The husband can simply ditch his wife by saying "I divorce you" three times. The wife can do no such thing. Pretty much a one way street, isn't it?

It's not that easy as you make it sound like. What you are referring to is the concept of "triple talaq" (talaq meaning divorce), but such a practice is not in agreement with the Quran. Saying "I divorce you" 3 times in one sitting has no validity to permanently separate a couple because in essence it counts as a single utterance. Muslims can divorce a maximum of three times each time followed by a waiting period (or iddah) which is about one month (3 months in total) so that perhaps they will reconcile within that time after solving whatever problems that they have. Therefore, when giving a divorce irrespective of whether a man say "I divorce you" once, twice or even a million times, it is yet one and only one divorce, because the waiting period is not done yet. So the equation is: 1 Talaq = proclaiming divorce (any number of times) + waiting period (during which it can be revoked).

On the other hand, the first pronouncement of divorce could also be the last one after a thorough decision-making process. One may not even need 3 months to consider his decision after he has asserted his first divorce, because that first divorce was the result of a period of many months. Essentially, one pronouncement of talaq may constitute a divorce, while 3 pronouncements of talaq is the maximum one may assert before the divorce automatically is instituted.

But this is not to say that the wife cannot make a divorce. She certainly can, according to grounds such as desertation, insanity, abusive husband, chronical disease, etc. So, it's not a one-way street. The general ground of divorce as mentioned in the Quran is hopeless failure of one or both parties to discharge their marital duties and to consort with each other in kindness, peace, and compassion. If they cannot do that, then either party may take steps to divorce.

And how many Muslim women (or, more accurately, young girls) are forced into a marriage they don't want because their father orders it? And we're talking 13 year old girls being forced to marry 60 year old men. How can you possibly say they "entered into a contract"? They didn't! They were forced!

Being forced into marriage is actually against the Quran. Therefore, forced marriages are not allowed. One of the conditions for marriage to be valid is that both the man and woman are asked independently of each other as to whether or not they agree with the marriage. If either of them say "no," then the marriage cannot continue. The parents have a responsibility to ensure that both couples are compatible and that they do not arrange a marriage merely for their own social and/or personal reasons.

"O you who believe! You are forbidden to inherit women against their will. Nor should you treat them with harshness, that you may take away part of the dowry you have given them , except when they have become guilty of open lewdness. On the contrary, live with them on a footing of kindness and equity. If you take a dislike to them, it may be that you dislike something and Allah will bring about through it a great deal of good." - (Surah 4:29)

WOW Rayaan. That sure is a huge list of BULLSHIT you posted. Islam sucks rhinoceros dick. I would prefer to live around American christians than mid east Islamics ANY DAY.

Well remember this Rev: Just because you say that something is bullshit because you don't believe in it doesn't make it so. It's one thing to say "bullshit" and another thing to prove it.

As a matter of fact, non-Muslims would not be expected to live according to the demands of the Shariah if it was to be introduced in a Western country. It would only apply to Muslims who have willfully pledged and vowed to live according to the Islamic teachings. Islamic history is replete with examples of Christians, Jews, and other communities flourishing under Islamic rule without being forced to live as Muslims.

Sorry Rayaan, there is absolutely nothing you can say that can ever justify the punishments that the followers of Islam divvy out to both their own people and those who hold contrary beliefs.

These punishments are justified to myself even though I may not be able to justify them to you and the atheists because your faith is not present in the first place. Therefore, it seems almost impossible for me to make these ideas fit together according to your own ethical perspective. What is more important is to look at it from a spiritual perspective, which deals with the sins of our private body parts, how the sin can affect others, what it does to the human soul, how to erase them, how to eliminate them, etc.

And finally, the word "shariah" literally means "a clear path to a large body of fresh water." It has been used also to mean a "divine path" or a "moral code." We believe that all the previous messengers of God were given a Shariah. In other words, Abraham had a Shariah, Moses had a Shariah, and Jesus had a Shariah. So Muhammad, the last messenger of God, also had a Shariah. What distinguishes each of them is merely that the laws differed slightly from time to time.

[Cinjin]

These punishments are justified to myself even though I may not be able to justify them to you and the atheists because your faith is not present in the first place. Therefore, it seems almost impossible for me to make these ideas fit together according to your own ethical perspective. What is more important is to look at it from a spiritual perspective, which deals with the sins of our private body parts, how the sin can affect others, what it does to the human soul, how to erase them, how to eliminate them, etc.

Interesting that you have to have faith to justify punishment. Which of course is ironic since those without faith end up being punished by your god.
You go on to say that Islam's ideas of punishment cannot fit into my own ethical perspective. Are you implying that a Deist such as myself has lower ethics than you, a muslim man? I don't stone people or cut their hands off and I don't condone those that do. I would argue that I my ethical values are far higher than the practitioners of Islam.
You then place great emphasis on the sins of "our private body parts". As if fornication and/or adultery is somehow worse than throwing acid in a woman's face or burning your children because they talked-back. What is it with muslims and sex? There is story after story (and I will provide links if you wish) of muslim men raping women all over the news. Not just the christian women that your religion winks about and looks the other way, but muslim women as well.

But no sooner has someone pointed out your barbaric punishments and every muslim man is screaming about how sexual sins are ruining their peaceful and civilized society. Thereby justifying some disgusting blood-thirsty unwarranted inhumane punishment - doled out by men in masks I might add.

It's insulting to ask anyone to swallow such massive amounts of irrational stupidity, but as irrational as it is, it's still infinitely more perplexing to know that an intelligent man who has a wealth of knowledge at his fingertips chooses to not only condone, but DEFEND the grotesque behavior of documented & bonafide hypocrits.

[Zen Badger]

As to sharia law in Australia.....

http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&source...IA3mN6XB5Q

Just as well too when you consider the fucktards it would benefit.

http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&source...Kw6V2gIQqA

[Foxtrot Uniform]

Shariah law is as barbaric, no matter how you look at it, as mosaic law. Death to gays, stoning, killing of rape victims for adultery, yea, I call that barbaric.

[Minimalist]

Firstly, only the instigator of the rape is to be killed, not the victim of the rape.

Rayann....I really don't know how you can be that out of touch with your own society?

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/africa...76354.html

A Somali girl who said she had been raped has been stoned to death in Somalia after being accused of adultery, a human rights group has said.

I'd wonder if perhaps the news has been suppressed in your country but....it's Al fucking-Jazeera printing the report!

[Jaysyn]

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Are secular laws barbaric?

- Machiavellian-like laws that allowed approximately 80 man, women, children to be imprisoned and then burned alive. Little babies coughing blood and their mothers couldn't do anything.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waco_siege

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdPtDJ02J...re=related


- Machiavellian-like laws that allowed a million innocent Iraqi civilians killed thanks to a little "white" lie from bad intel sources.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEj2VC07Mbo


- Pedophiles-like laws that allows authorities to grope children under the age 10

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGGfRBcfr1g



...
examples like these, it sure looks like that's the case.


case in point, I can take the most negative stereotypes to make a judgment on the secular world.

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[Rayaan]

What else can I say?

http://imageshack.us/m/717/2198/threadfailstamp.gif