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RE: Evolution: Abrupt Changes
December 25, 2016 at 12:59 am
(December 23, 2016 at 7:36 am)Anomalocaris Wrote: (December 23, 2016 at 12:34 am)RiddledWithFear Wrote: So you're saying that a large amount of enviroment change will change a species significantly, but slow changes will happen afterwards?
Yes. New environmental conditions will encourage speciation in two ways: it opens up room for new adaptations better suited for the new environment to be selected, and it also ween old obsolete adaptations from the population. So rate of selection for significant changes goes up. But overtime, if the environment remains stable, then as better adaptation accumulate, there is reduced room for further improvements to adaptation, so the rate of selection for significant changes goes down.
Thanks a bunch! That makes a lot more sense. Yeah, because I had always thought evolution was always nothing but gradual, but yeah, that makes more sense.
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RE: Evolution: Abrupt Changes
December 25, 2016 at 1:12 am
(This post was last modified: December 25, 2016 at 1:14 am by Chas.)
(December 25, 2016 at 12:59 am)RiddledWithFear Wrote: (December 23, 2016 at 7:36 am)Anomalocaris Wrote: Yes. New environmental conditions will encourage speciation in two ways: it opens up room for new adaptations better suited for the new environment to be selected, and it also ween old obsolete adaptations from the population. So rate of selection for significant changes goes up. But overtime, if the environment remains stable, then as better adaptation accumulate, there is reduced room for further improvements to adaptation, so the rate of selection for significant changes goes down.
Thanks a bunch! That makes a lot more sense. Yeah, because I had always thought evolution was always nothing but gradual, but yeah, that makes more sense.
Evolution is always gradual when viewed in a human time frame. "Abrupt" in evolutionary terms is something that occurs in centuries or millennia instead of hundreds or thousands of millennia.
Speciation requires many generations - never just one.
Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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RE: Evolution: Abrupt Changes
December 25, 2016 at 3:55 am
Not always. Brassicaraph is a divergent hybrid -genera- that only took two generations to produce.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Evolution: Abrupt Changes
December 25, 2016 at 8:13 am
(December 25, 2016 at 3:55 am)Rhythm Wrote: Not always. Brassicaraph is a divergent hybrid -genera- that only took two generations to produce.
Google fails me.
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RE: Evolution: Abrupt Changes
December 25, 2016 at 10:12 am
(December 25, 2016 at 3:55 am)Rhythm Wrote: Not always. Brassicaraph is a divergent hybrid -genera- that only took two generations to produce.
If you mean Brassicoraphanus, it is an artificially hybridized organism so it hardly qualifies as an example of rapid speciation.
Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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RE: Evolution: Abrupt Changes
December 25, 2016 at 10:15 am
Aren't we all Agents of Darwin?
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RE: Evolution: Abrupt Changes
December 25, 2016 at 10:35 am
"Something like that."
"Well, evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts don't go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's in this century, but apples didn't suspend themselves in midair, pending the outcome. And humans evolved from ape- like ancestors whether they did so by Darwin's proposed mechanism or by some other yet to be discovered."
-Stephen Jay Gould
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RE: Evolution: Abrupt Changes
December 25, 2016 at 10:35 am
(December 25, 2016 at 10:35 am)Tonus Wrote: "Something like that."
![[Image: 545712_492145504143593_297576537_n.jpg]](https://images.weserv.nl/?url=bestdamnnerdshow.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F10%2F545712_492145504143593_297576537_n.jpg)
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RE: Evolution: Abrupt Changes
December 26, 2016 at 12:38 pm
(This post was last modified: December 26, 2016 at 12:46 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(December 25, 2016 at 10:12 am)Chas Wrote: (December 25, 2016 at 3:55 am)Rhythm Wrote: Not always. Brassicaraph is a divergent hybrid -genera- that only took two generations to produce.
If you mean Brassicoraphanus, it is an artificially hybridized organism so it hardly qualifies as an example of rapid speciation.
Artificial selection is still selection. Speciation is speciation. They didn't have fancy gene editing schemes pre-war.... it simply shows what the underlying biology is capable of, given the right conditions. The question of whether or not rapid or abrupt speciation can occur, either on human timescales or the more common geological timescales is a resounding and well evidence yes. The prospects of survival for those novel new species, however, looks grim. We have no idea how many hybrids may have happened out in the field. We do know that nearly all of them will fail to establish a population due to a variety of factors.
@Agents of Darwin
LOL, I know I took my secret oath, lol. People sometimes get hung up on the "artifical" bit, I think. It's linguistic, we take it to make fake. That's not what it refers to in the context of evolutionary theory, even if that's how the words usage has evolved over time. Helps to remember artificial as in artificier.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Evolution: Abrupt Changes
December 26, 2016 at 1:53 pm
Portuguese is also treacherous. When people ask me if I ever been 'soldado', that means soldier, the lowest rank, I tell them I was made of a single piece (soldado also means something welded together).
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