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RE: Testimony is Evidence
August 29, 2017 at 9:24 am
RoadRunner79 Wrote:Cyberman Wrote:How many times do I have to say that that's not your call to make? Why can't you simply present your evidence and leave it to us to decide whether or not we find it convincing? Complaining about our integrity only serves to make us think you don't have any evidence, or at least have no confidence in what you may have.
I find this, more than a bit ironic!
Have you been asking us to present evidence of something and we've been questioning your integrity instead of providing it? That WOULD be hypocritical.
I'm not anti-Christian. I'm anti-stupid.
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RE: Testimony is Evidence
August 29, 2017 at 9:28 am
(August 29, 2017 at 9:24 am)Mister Agenda Wrote: RoadRunner79 Wrote:I find this, more than a bit ironic!
Have you been asking us to present evidence of something and we've been questioning your integrity instead of providing it? That WOULD be hypocritical.
Too bad that's never happened. Instead it been made clear on any thread were we have criticized Road that the criticism sticks. He will deny it . He will deflect it . But the threads speak for themselves .
Plus is he really trying the tired it's all testimony nonsense .
Seek strength, not to be greater than my brother, but to fight my greatest enemy -- myself.
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RE: Testimony is Evidence
August 29, 2017 at 9:44 am
(August 29, 2017 at 9:24 am)Mister Agenda Wrote: RoadRunner79 Wrote:I find this, more than a bit ironic!
Have you been asking us to present evidence of something and we've been questioning your integrity instead of providing it? That WOULD be hypocritical.
Glad that you agree!
It is said that an argument is what convinces reasonable men and a proof is what it takes to convince even an unreasonable man. - Alexander Vilenkin
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RE: Testimony is Evidence
August 29, 2017 at 9:57 am
(This post was last modified: August 29, 2017 at 10:00 am by Astonished.)
(August 29, 2017 at 8:49 am)RoadRunner79 Wrote:
Another example... out of curiosity.
A number of astronomers from various locations in the world observe a phenomenon which shows that the universe is eternal. Hugh Ross (Christian astronomer and apologist was one of the ones who observed this event, and begins to drastically change his views) This phenomena had a limited time window, which it could be observed, and we are unable to observe it at will.
Assuming that the testimony of this event is good (as well as the reasoning for the conclusion)i s there evidence for an eternal universe in this scenario?
You really...truly...absolutely...irrevocably...have no fucking clue what the hell you're talking about. This is a situation in which there would be no testimony without the evidence in the first place. It's not really even testimony, these are hypotheses that need to be supported by the evidence to make accurate predictions to even have a glimmer of credibility. If they're claiming X or Y then without being able to demonstrate it (they are scientists after all, and understand deeply how this process works unlike some) then it's not testimony, it's a claim or assertion.
You also seem to be overstating the importance of a person's individual witnessing and recall of events (your own, in particular). After all we've done to demonstrate how memory is faulty, how one's biases or superstitious beliefs or ignorance of facts or attitude or emotional state can have major adverse effects upon one's ability to perceive adequately what they are witnessing, and their ability to recall it when giving testimony. Your inability to absorb these concepts, your tendency to repeat yourself to the nth degree without learning anything, and after being called out, constantly blaming the rest of us for your lack of ability in a pathetically transparent effort to project your own inadequacy onto the rest of us, is painfully obvious proof that your perception of how this 'debate' is progressing is at the level of an elementary school child.
Religions were invented to impress and dupe illiterate, superstitious stone-age peasants. So in this modern, enlightened age of information, what's your excuse? Or are you saying with all your advantages, you were still tricked as easily as those early humans?
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There is no better way to convey the least amount of information in the greatest amount of words than to try explaining your religious views.
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RE: Testimony is Evidence
August 29, 2017 at 9:59 am
(August 29, 2017 at 8:49 am)RoadRunner79 Wrote: [...] The evidence is what they had seen [...]
No, it isn't. What they've seen is the event itself. Evidence is that information which would bring a third person to a conclusion about what had happened in the event, even though the third person wasn't there.
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RE: Testimony is Evidence
August 29, 2017 at 10:01 am
(August 29, 2017 at 9:59 am)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: (August 29, 2017 at 8:49 am)RoadRunner79 Wrote: [...] The evidence is what they had seen [...]
No, it isn't. What they've seen is the event itself. Evidence is that information which would bring a third person to a conclusion about what had happened in the event, even though the third person wasn't there.
What they've seen and what they believe happened and how they recall it happening in their mind, are three entirely different things.
Religions were invented to impress and dupe illiterate, superstitious stone-age peasants. So in this modern, enlightened age of information, what's your excuse? Or are you saying with all your advantages, you were still tricked as easily as those early humans?
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There is no better way to convey the least amount of information in the greatest amount of words than to try explaining your religious views.
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RE: Testimony is Evidence
August 29, 2017 at 10:06 am
Quote:[...] The evidence is what they had seen [...]
Nope that's the claim . Now they need to back it with evidence. Saying they saw something does not mean dick to me .
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RE: Testimony is Evidence
August 29, 2017 at 10:09 am
(August 29, 2017 at 8:49 am)RoadRunner79 Wrote: (August 28, 2017 at 8:44 pm)Cyberman Wrote: How many times do I have to say that that's not your call to make? Why can't you simply present your evidence and leave it to us to decide whether or not we find it convincing? Complaining about our integrity only serves to make us think you don't have any evidence, or at least have no confidence in what you may have.
I find this, more than a bit ironic!
So what evidence have I ever condemned you or anyone as closed-minded for not accepting? Otherwise your irony is a little rusty.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
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RE: Testimony is Evidence
August 29, 2017 at 10:13 am
(August 29, 2017 at 10:09 am)Cyberman Wrote: (August 29, 2017 at 8:49 am)RoadRunner79 Wrote: I find this, more than a bit ironic!
So what evidence have I ever condemned you or anyone as closed-minded for not accepting? Otherwise your irony is a little rusty.
A few of keep condemning him for not accepting that testimony, first-hand or otherwise, is unreliable in the highest degree.
Religions were invented to impress and dupe illiterate, superstitious stone-age peasants. So in this modern, enlightened age of information, what's your excuse? Or are you saying with all your advantages, you were still tricked as easily as those early humans?
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There is no better way to convey the least amount of information in the greatest amount of words than to try explaining your religious views.
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RE: Testimony is Evidence
August 29, 2017 at 10:13 am
(August 29, 2017 at 9:59 am)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: (August 29, 2017 at 8:49 am)RoadRunner79 Wrote: [...] The evidence is what they had seen [...]
No, it isn't. What they've seen is the event itself. Evidence is that information which would bring a third person to a conclusion about what had happened in the event, even though the third person wasn't there. Along with corroborating evidence.
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