Holocaust Denial

[The Grand Nudger]

Irony, teeheee.  He -is- the bait....Dyre, lol.

[CatholicDefender]

There are two main bards of the Holocaust: Elie Wiesel and Primo Levi.

I recently borrowed Levi's complete works from the local library.

Does anyone have any opinion on either, and whose works are superior?

Levi apparently was a chemist and professional write with a number of volumes. I can only think of Night by Wiesel.

Its sort of a shame Wiesel made himself the grand priest of the holocaust and was willing to let himself be pimped out by Oprah Winfrey along with others.

Levi seems more subdued, and had more interests in his life besides his tragic internment at aushwitgz

https://www.jacobinmag.com/2016/07/elie-...e-kertesz/

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/arc...es/413134/

[Cyberman]

Here's a better idea. Do you have an opinion on either of them?

Do you actually have an opinion of your own at all? Or can you only speak in hyperlinks?

[Rev. Rye]

Um, Elie Wiesel had far more books to his name than Night. Granted, Night is easily the most famous, but he actually had a bigger bibliography than Primo Levi.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elie_Wiesel_bibliography

[Thumpalumpacus]

How could that be? What were the British bombers doing for years if not degrading German industrial capacity?

lol, someone has never heard of the Butts Report. As late as late 1942, three years into British bombings, the RAF determined that their CEP for night bombings was five miles. They could barely hit the city at all, much less a factory inside it.

One canard of the Holocaust deniers is that the reason so many inmates died was because of allied saturation bombings which destroyed the German ability to feed the prisoners. Is that true, or were they deliberately starved?

Neither. About 1 million died as a result of Einsatzgruppen, a cause which cannot be laid at the feet of the Allies in any case. Invoices show the shipment of Zyklon-B to Auschwitz, Birkenau, and other death camps which murdered millions. The destruction of German transportation was only effected in late 1944-early 1945, after the active operations at most death camps ceased.

These days holocaust survivors is a label to any Jewish person who lived in Europe during the 1930s-40s.

This is nonsense. Einstein fits your definition, yet no one labels him a Holocaust survivor. Many others as well.

Nowadays it seems all the holocaust survivors were at Aushwitz and no other camp, all of them were experimented on by Dr. Mengele (he can't be everywhere at once!).

Again, rot. If you'd like a slapdown, just ask. I'll be happy to provide source material. Somehow, though (I wonder why?) I don't think you're really interested in the truth of the matter. I think you're pushing an agenda.

There aren't really masterful works on the camps anymore. In the old days it was Elie Wiesel, Primo Levi and (Rest their souls) Anne and Otto Frank.

In the past 20 years there have been massive numbers of memoirs written about the camps, some of which turned out to be false.

1.http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/US/story?id=6903068

2.https://carolynyeager.net/holocaust-scholar-finds-“diamond-girl”-be-work-fiction

3.https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jun/24/holocaust-survivor-lied-joseph-hirt-auschwitz

Oh, dear. Some few fabricate false narratives, and that undermines the entire body of evidence? Some Americans claimed to be native Americans when they weren't. Does that obviate the genocide we practiced here?

I think you're a Holocaust denier, but lack the balls to admit as much. At least the assholes marching in Charlottesville were honest enough to march under an open flag. You, on the other hand, strike me as a Holocaust version of a concern troll -- pretending to fight against Holocaust deniers while reposting their views uncritically.

Whether or not you are such, the fact that you repost those posts uncritically and are apparently unable to review the history for yourself marks you as a deficient thinker and unworthy of serious consideration. If you really cared about the issue you would take the time to inform yourself prior to engaging in discussion over it, and certainly prior to engaging in argument about it. The fact that you are happy to argue from ignorance says much more about you than your arguments themselves ... though they say much about you as well.

Give us some more of that old-time Catholicism, kid. Fly that flag. You're feeding the atheist narrative.

[CatholicDefender]

I dont deny the Holocaust.

I just have questions about it, and aside from mandated classes in it in middle school and high school (part of this tolerance agenda or something) I really haven't heard much about it, or sought a ton of info.

I can't get over how they never told us about the Dachau priest barracks. I wonder if my school was anti Catholic at some level.

Just I don't know.. part of me thinks the Germans were the good guys when they invaded the Soviet Union, the greatest anti christian entity on the earth, and the brute Stalin had far bloodier hands than Herr Hitler did.

Look at these pictures of German "brutal occupation" in the USSR

1. http://www.holocaustresearchproject.org/...20Riga.jpg

2. http://imgur.com/qi1VUGR

3.https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/ac/6e/87/ac6e8782f8592deb50ee8f1f4659cb25.jpg

4. and many such others http://www.mourningtheancient.com/truth-ukrainev2.htm

At some level the people of the USSr saw the Nazis as liberators, even if the NAzis did bad things.

Im just saying things can be a bit complicated at times, and the German invasion of the USSR can't in itself be viewed as a rotten thing, though rotten things inevitably occurred.

Was the Allied attack on Germany all bad because of the firebombing of Hamburg and Dresden?

[Anomalocaris]

Soviet Union, the greatest anti christian entity on the earth,

So Stalin did have some redeeming qualities.

Interestingly, the Eastern Orthodox Christian Church sucked stalin's cock with almost as much relish as the Catholic Church sucked Hitler's one testicled cock, and Stalin was more generous with his reward than Hitler, and he gave th patriarch of Moscow the Hero of socialist labor medal, which is the most prestigious medal the USSR gave to civilians.

[Thumpalumpacus]

I dont deny the Holocaust.

Like I said, I think you want to but lack the gonads to say so openly. That is why you posit questions, strew links uncritically, and argue over details even when you're obviously ignorant of those same details.

I just have questions about it, and aside from mandated classes in it in middle school and high school (part of this tolerance agenda or something) I really haven't heard much about it, or sought a ton of info.

lol, poor thing, you have to tolerate history? My lord, you're so abused!

Just I don't know.. part of me thinks the Germans were the good guys when they invaded the Soviet Union, the greatest anti christian entity on the earth, and the brute Stalin had far bloodier hands than Herr Hitler did.

You're not alone. Your own pope regarded Operation Barbarossa as "high-minded gallantry in defense of Christian civilization" ... never mind that Hitler had already laid out thirteen years prior his ideas that Lebensraum would be found in the East ... never mind that he'd already shown with the Poles how he was prepared to deal with Untermenschen like Slavs ... never mind that your pope never recanted this praise even after the operations of the Einsatzgruppen were made clear in the Nuremberg trials.

That part of you that thinks the Germans were the good guys invading Russia is also the part of you that thinks a war of extermination is a good thing. It's the part of you that thinks that your ideology is more important than human lives. It's the religious part of you. Own it.

Now, how about you tell us how your belief in your god imbues you with morality? I'm all fucking ears, pal.

Look at these pictures of German "brutal occupation" in the USSR

1. http://www.holocaustresearchproject.org/...20Riga.jpg

2. http://imgur.com/qi1VUGR

3.https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/ac/6e/87/ac6e8782f8592deb50ee8f1f4659cb25.jpg

4. and many such others http://www.mourningtheancient.com/truth-ukrainev2.htm

At some level the people of the USSr saw the Nazis as liberators, even if the NAzis did bad things.

Of course many citizens in that oppressive state found soldiers chasing away the OGPU or Red Army as liberators. But that is not the point. The point is that even after those humble people learnt the truth and took up arms against the NaZis, your pope still did not recant his praise, still did not excommunicate Hitler after he knew of the Shoah, still did not think his own god would protect him from Skorzeny et al.

You can dress it up all you like, but the fact is that the Catholic Church, in its silence, did nothing to abey the scourge of NaZiism. And you know what they say -- all it takes for evil to prosper is for good men to do nothing.

And that is exactly what your church, and your pope, did: nothing.

Im just saying things can be a bit complicated at times, and the German invasion of the USSR can't in itself be viewed as a rotten thing, though rotten things inevitably occurred.

Yes, it can, because it was driven by an ideology predicated on stripping those human beings of life, livelihood, freedom and the means to exist. I suggest you read up on the starvation plans the Germans laid out ... but I doubt you will.

Was the Allied attack on Germany all bad because of the firebombing of Hamburg and Dresden?

Why are you trying to deflect? We're talking about why your church did not condemn NaZi actions. What does my opinion about Hamburg or Dresden have to do with that?

The stench of desperation is strong with you. Stay on point. Why did your pope not condemn NaZiism? Was it because your god couldn't stop German special forces? Was it because your pope didn't object to non-Catholics being exterminated? Do tell.

[Amarok]

Ah the body count argument . I'm sorry one brutal nut case killing fewer people the another brutal nut case does not give a pass to the one who killed fewer . Nor is it equal to bombing Dresden . And it's not an excuse for the Pope to be silent . Even if it cost him his life.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Just so we're clear, here's an example of the brutality this pope refused to condemn:

---

On the 5 October 1942, when I visited the building office at Dubno, my foreman told me that in the vicinity of the site Jews from Dubno, had been shot in three large pits, each about thirty metres long and three metres deep. About fifteen hundred persons had been killed daily. All were to be liquidated. As the shootings had taken place in his presence he was still very upset.

Moennikes and I went straight to the pits. Nobody prevented us. I heard a quick succession of shots from behind one of the mounds of earth. The people who had got off the lorries – men, women and children of all ages – had to undress upon the order of an SS man, who carried a riding or a dog whip. They had to put their clothes on separate piles of shoes, top clothing, and underclothing.

I saw a heap of shoes that must have contained eight hundred to one thousand pairs, great piles of clothes and undergarments. Without screaming or weeping these people undressed, stood in family groups, kissed each other, said their farewells, and waited for a sign form another SS man, who stood near the pit, also with a whip in his hand.

During the fifteen minutes that I stood near the pit, I did not hear anyone complain or beg for mercy. I watched a family of about eight, a man and a woman, both about fifty, with their children, aged about one, eight and ten, and two grown up daughters of about twenty to twenty –four.

An old woman with snow-white hair was holding the one-year old child in her arms, singing something to it and tickling it. The child was crowing with delight. The man and wife were looking on with tears in their eyes.

The father was holding the hand of a boy about ten, speaking to him softly. The boy was fighting back his tears. The father pointed to the sky, stroked the boy’s head and seemed to explain something to him.

At that moment the SS man at the pit shouted something to his comrade, who separated off about twenty persons and ordered them to go behind the mound of earth. Among them was the family I have mentioned.

I still clearly remember a dark- haired, slim girl who pointed to herself as she passed close to me and said, “Twenty-Three.” I walked to the other side of the mound and found myself standing before an enormous grave. The people lay so closely packed, one on top of the other, that only their heads were visible.

Nearly all had blood running over their shoulders from their heads. Some of them were still moving. Some lifted an arm and turned a head to show that they were still alive.

The pit was already two-thirds full. I estimated that it already contained about one thousand people. I looked round for the man who had shot them. He was an SS man who was sitting on the edge of the narrow end of the pit, his legs dangling into it. He had a sub-machine gun across his knees and was smoking a cigarette.

The people, completely naked, went down some steps which had been cut in the clay wall of the pit and climbed over the heads of those already lying there, to the place indicated by the SS man. They laid down in front of the dead or injured people. Some of them caressed those who were still alive and spoke to them softly.

Then I heard a series of shots. I looked into the pit and saw that the bodies were twitching or that the heads lay motionless on top of the bodies which lay before them. Blood was pouring from their necks.

I was surprised I was not ordered away, but saw there were also two or three uniformed policemen standing nearby. The next batch was already approaching. They climbed into the pit, lined up against the previous victims and were shot.

http://www.historyplace.com/worldwar2/ti...gineer.htm

---