If you're an Atheist, what comforts you?

[Mr.Obvious]

How about your own interests, achievements, and the loves you forge with others? No "isms" involved. No gods, either.

No matter how great an individual I become I will always seek something greater than myself.
I'm a weak, fallen human being with few achievements. There is nothing to atheism but loss and more loss. Loss of identity and any sense of community too.
That's why young non-religious people are turning to toxic ideologies like the "Alt-Right". They need it to fill the void.

Love is greater than myself. Through love I grow. Not just through hate.
Love for my girlfriend, is greater than myself.
Love for fellow man is greater than myself.
Love for family is greater than myself.
Love for knowledge and understanding of the universe is greater than myself.
Love for theater is greater than myself.
Love for my cliënts.
Love for books and series and songs composed by individuals and groups alike.
Collaborations and displays of the human effort. Always building, often faltering and misguided, but Always pushing forward towards either the brink of self-destruction or the attempted self-earned salvation of our species. The human will to try and persist, in spite of failure, shame and the grim uncertainty that lies ahead.
Trust me, if you recognize the many faults we have, you can become attuned to finding whatever points we should admire about the sum of our parts.
There are things greater than any one of us to admire.

[Cherub786]

Ah, mere slogans without any practicability. It's not part of the human condition to just love, love, love and have no other feelings.
Why should the other emotions be viewed negatively and love alone cherished? Don't you get tired of loving all the time?
We need a balance of emotions. There's nothing inherently wrong with hatred or for that matter anger, sorrow, and other passions. That's what makes us human.
Love gets boring after a while too, just like atheism.

[Crossless2.0]

How about your own interests, achievements, and the loves you forge with others? No "isms" involved. No gods, either.

No matter how great an individual I become I will always seek something greater than myself.
I'm a weak, fallen human being with few achievements. There is nothing to atheism but loss and more loss. Loss of identity and any sense of community too.
That's why young non-religious people are turning to toxic ideologies like the "Alt-Right". They need it to fill the void.

I see. So the world as it is doesn't meet your requirements for significance or transcendence. Too bad for you -- not that the world gives a damn about your existential crisis.

You say atheism is nothing but 'loss and more loss' and will result in a loss of identity and community? Yeah, religious communities are good at guilting others for 'unacceptable' thoughts and legitimate doubts. Fear of losing family and friends is a driver for the sort of conformity they require. For my part, I've never considered those who would shun me for not sharing their ideological commitments or their favorite character from an old book to be worth keeping in the first place.

I say atheism is 'nothing but' a willingness to face reality and the limits of what we can know and reasonably believe. You want to seek something greater than yourself? Great. Just understand that whatever you eventually find will oddly mirror what you bring to the table. 

As for the Alt-Right, I'd wager that a majority of them self-identify as theists. But go ahead and ride that hobby horse if it makes you feel better. You're a member of this community. Do you seriously think most of us atheists here subscribe to the Alt-Right, or communism, or fascism? Pay attention.

[Mr.Obvious]

Ah, mere slogans without any practicability. It's not part of the human condition to just love, love, love and have no other feelings.
Why should the other emotions be viewed negatively and love alone cherished? Don't you get tired of loving all the time?
We need a balance of emotions. There's nothing inherently wrong with hatred or for that matter anger, sorrow, and other passions. That's what makes us human.
Love gets boring after a while too, just like atheism.

Love is the most fullfilling of emotions, to me.
But I agree, and that's why I said I don't just grow through hate.
Which I do grow through.
Love is not all, but life would be an empty experience without it. 
Pride. That's a good one too. A tad dangerous. But good. As with lust.
But hey, what's a discussion about things we agree on, eh?

Bold mine: And that seems plenty to start building your identity from, 786.
In the end, after all, isn't an identity built upon 'religion' actually an identity built upon your 'passion for said religion'?

[Cherub786]

I see. So the world as it is doesn't meet your requirements for significance or transcendence. Too bad for you -- not that the world gives a damn about your existential crisis.

Sure. Most of humanity doesn't find material pursuits and just living a normal life without any greater purpose fulfilling either. At least I'd wager that's the case. If I'm wrong, then at least I know there's something special about me that I yearn for some greater meaning than the ordinary, mundane life that 99.9% of humanity lives.

You say atheism is nothing but 'loss and more loss' and will result in a loss of identity and community? Yeah, religious communities are good at guilting others for 'unacceptable' thoughts and legitimate doubts. Fear of losing family and friends is a driver for the sort of conformity they require. For my part, I've never considered those who would shun me for not sharing their ideological commitments or their favorite character from an old book to be worth keeping in the first place.

It has nothing to do with being shunned. If I become an atheist I will take myself out of a range of meaningful activities voluntarily. I would have no further use for going to the mosque, engaging in intensive worship where at times I'm raptured into spiritual states transcending the material, no further use for the fulfilling socio-political narrative that I derive from religion. I would have lost more than anything I could potentially gain.

I say atheism is 'nothing but' a willingness to face reality and the limits of what we can know. You want to seek something greater than yourself? Great. Just understand that whatever you eventually find will oddly mirror what you bring to the table. 

As for the Alt-Right, I'd wager that a majority of them self-identify as theists. But go ahead and ride that hobby horse if it makes you feel better. You're a member of this community. Do you seriously think most of us atheists here subscribe to the Alt-Right, or communism, or fascism? Pay attention.

As I understand it, the majority of active atheists on this forum are from an older generation that is just content with being grandparents or having a beautiful garden and manicured lawn. They seem to have left behind the excitement a long time ago. I for one hope I never enter into such a condition even if I reach my 90s!

---

Ah, mere slogans without any practicability. It's not part of the human condition to just love, love, love and have no other feelings.
Why should the other emotions be viewed negatively and love alone cherished? Don't you get tired of loving all the time?
We need a balance of emotions. There's nothing inherently wrong with hatred or for that matter anger, sorrow, and other passions. That's what makes us human.
Love gets boring after a while too, just like atheism.

Love is the most fullfilling of emotions, to me.
But I agree, and that's why I said I don't just grow through hate.
Which I do grow through.
Love is not all, but life would be an empty experience without it. 
Pride. That's a good one too. A tad dangerous. But good. As with lust.
But hey, what's a discussion about things we agree on, eh?

Bold mine: And that seems plenty to start building your identity from, 786.
In the end, after all, isn't an identity built upon 'religion' actually an identity built upon your 'passion for said religion'?

Personally, I don't have passion for anything except Religion. I'd make a poor atheist

[Mr.Obvious]

I see. So the world as it is doesn't meet your requirements for significance or transcendence. Too bad for you -- not that the world gives a damn about your existential crisis.

Sure. Most of humanity doesn't find material pursuits and just living a normal life without any greater purpose fulfilling either. At least I'd wager that's the case. If I'm wrong, then at least I know there's something special about me that I yearn for some greater meaning than the ordinary, mundane life that 99.9% of humanity lives.

You say atheism is nothing but 'loss and more loss' and will result in a loss of identity and community? Yeah, religious communities are good at guilting others for 'unacceptable' thoughts and legitimate doubts. Fear of losing family and friends is a driver for the sort of conformity they require. For my part, I've never considered those who would shun me for not sharing their ideological commitments or their favorite character from an old book to be worth keeping in the first place.

It has nothing to do with being shunned. If I become an atheist I will take myself out of a range of meaningful activities voluntarily. I would have no further use for going to the mosque, engaging in intensive worship where at times I'm raptured into spiritual states transcending the material, no further use for the fulfilling socio-political narrative that I derive from religion. I would have lost more than anything I could potentially gain.

I say atheism is 'nothing but' a willingness to face reality and the limits of what we can know. You want to seek something greater than yourself? Great. Just understand that whatever you eventually find will oddly mirror what you bring to the table. 

As for the Alt-Right, I'd wager that a majority of them self-identify as theists. But go ahead and ride that hobby horse if it makes you feel better. You're a member of this community. Do you seriously think most of us atheists here subscribe to the Alt-Right, or communism, or fascism? Pay attention.

As I understand it, the majority of active atheists on this forum are from an older generation that is just content with being grandparents or having a beautiful garden and manicured lawn. They seem to have left behind the excitement a long time ago. I for one hope I never enter into such a condition even if I reach my 90s!

---

Love is the most fullfilling of emotions, to me.
But I agree, and that's why I said I don't just grow through hate.
Which I do grow through.
Love is not all, but life would be an empty experience without it. 
Pride. That's a good one too. A tad dangerous. But good. As with lust.
But hey, what's a discussion about things we agree on, eh?

Bold mine: And that seems plenty to start building your identity from, 786.
In the end, after all, isn't an identity built upon 'religion' actually an identity built upon your 'passion for said religion'?

Personally, I don't have passion for anything except Religion. I'd make a poor atheist

You should try it.

[Cherub786]

You should try it.

Nah dude. I'm not just a religious person, I'm pretty much a mystic. If you saw me you'd see a man with shoulder length black hair, a full beard, dressed in a white robe and wool shawl, with a rosary in his right hand, head covered with a skullcap. That is a kind of indication at what kind of thinking and way I'm upon. You can't go from that to straight up atheist. It's a 180 degree difference.

[Crossless2.0]

I see. So the world as it is doesn't meet your requirements for significance or transcendence. Too bad for you -- not that the world gives a damn about your existential crisis.

Sure. Most of humanity doesn't find material pursuits and just living a normal life without any greater purpose fulfilling either. At least I'd wager that's the case. If I'm wrong, then at least I know there's something special about me that I yearn for some greater meaning than the ordinary, mundane life that 99.9% of humanity lives.

You say atheism is nothing but 'loss and more loss' and will result in a loss of identity and community? Yeah, religious communities are good at guilting others for 'unacceptable' thoughts and legitimate doubts. Fear of losing family and friends is a driver for the sort of conformity they require. For my part, I've never considered those who would shun me for not sharing their ideological commitments or their favorite character from an old book to be worth keeping in the first place.

It has nothing to do with being shunned. If I become an atheist I will take myself out of a range of meaningful activities voluntarily. I would have no further use for going to the mosque, engaging in intensive worship where at times I'm raptured into spiritual states transcending the material, no further use for the fulfilling socio-political narrative that I derive from religion. I would have lost more than anything I could potentially gain.

I say atheism is 'nothing but' a willingness to face reality and the limits of what we can know. You want to seek something greater than yourself? Great. Just understand that whatever you eventually find will oddly mirror what you bring to the table. 

As for the Alt-Right, I'd wager that a majority of them self-identify as theists. But go ahead and ride that hobby horse if it makes you feel better. You're a member of this community. Do you seriously think most of us atheists here subscribe to the Alt-Right, or communism, or fascism? Pay attention.

As I understand it, the majority of active atheists on this forum are from an older generation that is just content with being grandparents or having a beautiful garden and manicured lawn. They seem to have left behind the excitement a long time ago. I for one hope I never enter into such a condition even if I reach my 90s!

Sure, living lives of quiet desperation is our common lot, and we are all subject to moments of despair or ennui, but that's a part of life -- not a necessary result of atheism alone. Religious people, too, experience these things. You paint with too broad a brush. Would it surprise you to learn that even atheist grandparents with gardens can live passionately, grow, learn, and engage in meaningful pursuits? Meditation, to take one example, is not inherently religious and entails no particular belief in this or that book, but it results in exactly the sort of seemingly transcendent experience you mention. I say 'seemingly' because I am of the opinion that such practice results in changes in brain activity-- not breaking through to another spiritual realm. Nevertheless, believing that to be the case in no way reduces the intensity or personal significance of the experience. Such practice is meaningful in and of itself. I simply do not also require a belief that the experience I have be woven into the cosmos or engraved eternally in some god's notice. 

Your objection that we have left behind "the excitement" strikes me as puerile.

[Cherub786]

Sure, living lives of quiet desperation is our common lot, and we are all subject to moments of despair or ennui, but that's a part of life -- not a necessary result of atheism alone. Religious people, too, experience these things. You paint with too broad a brush. Would it surprise you to learn that even atheist grandparents with gardens can live passionately, grow, learn, and engage in meaningful pursuits? Meditation, to take one example, is not inherently religious and entails no particular belief in this or that book, but it results in exactly the sort of seemingly transcendent experience you mention. I say 'seemingly' because I am of the opinion that such practice results in changes in brain activity-- not breaking through to another spiritual realm. Nevertheless, believing that to be the case in no way reduces the intensity or personal significance of the experience. Such practice is meaningful in and of itself. I simply do not also require a belief that the experience I have be woven into the cosmos or engraved eternally in some god's notice. 

Your objection that we have left behind "the excitement" strikes me as puerile.

As for meditation, it cannot be compared to the kind of worship we do which requires a certain mindset, belief in God, to Whom we direct our complaints, sorrows, beg, cry, and generally debase ourselves. I've never seen that done in yoga or meditation. So how can they result in the same psychological state?

Meditation doesn't bring about an actual improvement in your personality, it's purpose is to achieve calmness and get rid of anxiety. I'm sure that's why loads of people smoke pot too.
Sometimes it's good to feel anxiety and the inner pain, that's what being human is about, that's what being alive is about. I don't agree with those eastern philosophies which are all about numbing oneself to feeling as the way to end suffering.

So I consider such exercises as meaningless and deficient compared to genuine religious mystical experiences and visions.

[Crossless2.0]

Sure, living lives of quiet desperation is our common lot, and we are all subject to moments of despair or ennui, but that's a part of life -- not a necessary result of atheism alone. Religious people, too, experience these things. You paint with too broad a brush. Would it surprise you to learn that even atheist grandparents with gardens can live passionately, grow, learn, and engage in meaningful pursuits? Meditation, to take one example, is not inherently religious and entails no particular belief in this or that book, but it results in exactly the sort of seemingly transcendent experience you mention. I say 'seemingly' because I am of the opinion that such practice results in changes in brain activity-- not breaking through to another spiritual realm. Nevertheless, believing that to be the case in no way reduces the intensity or personal significance of the experience. Such practice is meaningful in and of itself. I simply do not also require a belief that the experience I have be woven into the cosmos or engraved eternally in some god's notice. 

Your objection that we have left behind "the excitement" strikes me as puerile.

As for meditation, it cannot be compared to the kind of worship we do which requires a certain mindset, belief in God, to Whom we direct our complaints, sorrows, beg, cry, and generally debase ourselves. I've never seen that done in yoga or meditation. So how can they result in the same psychological state?

Meditation doesn't bring about an actual improvement in your personality, it's purpose is to achieve calmness and get rid of anxiety. I'm sure that's why loads of people smoke pot too.
Sometimes it's good to feel anxiety and the inner pain, that's what being human is about, that's what being alive is about. I don't agree with those eastern philosophies which are all about numbing oneself to feeling as the way to end suffering.

So I consider such exercises as meaningless and deficient compared to genuine religious mystical experiences and visions.

Three points:

1) The yogic meditation you contrast with "the kind of worship we do" originated among people who had belief in God in its many manifestations. Yoga, broadly speaking, is a variety of pursuits and practices, not all of which conform to what we moderns think of as yoga. Bhakti yoga is an interesting example.

2) I didn't really suggest that they result in the same psychological state. I suggested that they result in similar brain states. The psychological content will be, in part, attributable to your personal and cultural baggage. Remember when I said you will find an oddly mirrored image of whatever you personally bring to the table? This is what I meant.

3) If you think that the purpose of yoga or meditation is to numb oneself, I would suggest you really don't understand it. Those who pursue it seem to think of it as an enhancement and a path to a fuller life. The question of suffering is largely one of attitude and perspective. See Buddha.