The dawn of civilization

[T0 Th3 M4X]

I've heard various explanations.  From the micro-dot explosion theories, on to the compressed matter the size of a grapefruit, and so on and so on.  There are lots of various theories and explanations floating around.  Some with components that are scientific and some just bits and pieces of someone's imagination.  Care to answer the question(s) now?  If not, good enough.  As I said, I'm not trying to single anyone out on any of it.

 Well... I'm, currently, just trying to gauge where your mind is at in regards to the matter y'see?

 Stepping my toes into this water's pond.

So, for starters, you're aware of the idea of 'Black holes' and how the gravity gets 'Weird' aroud such things, yes?

Not at work.

Yes, I'm very familiar. I believe you're referring to an event horizon, or the point where gravity and light are bent and can't escape.  Of course that includes other things as well, such as rocks or whatever else comes in contact with it.  It's not a new topic for me, and I've heard variations over the years.  I can't say I've paid much attention to what has come about recently with it due to other interests, but I like to catch up on occasion.

[Peebothuhlu]

Yes, I'm very familiar. I believe you're referring to an event horizon, or the point where gravity and light are bent and can't escape.  Of course that includes other things as well, such as rocks or whatever else comes in contact with it.  It's not a new topic for me, and I've heard variations over the years.  I can't say I've paid much attention to what has come about recently with it due to other interests, but I like to catch up on occasion.

 Okay, cool. Just getting a base line for things.

So... a 'Black hole' is a place of gravity where an amount of mass has been reduced to a space smaller than its 'Schwarzschild radius'.

Technically.... anything compressed enough to fit that description will become a black hole.

So, should we ever become able to manipulate gravitons? Then, yes, we could compress a small amount of matter dwon untill we get a teeny, tiny black hole.

But I digress.

So.... the event posited/postulated at the very beginning of our reality... Is not quite like that at all.

 Ready to take another small step if you are.

Not at work.

[T0 Th3 M4X]

Yes, I'm very familiar. I believe you're referring to an event horizon, or the point where gravity and light are bent and can't escape.  Of course that includes other things as well, such as rocks or whatever else comes in contact with it.  It's not a new topic for me, and I've heard variations over the years.  I can't say I've paid much attention to what has come about recently with it due to other interests, but I like to catch up on occasion.

 Okay, cool. Just getting a base line for things.

So... a 'Black hole' is a place of gravity where an amount of mass has been reduced to a space smaller than its 'Schwarzschild radius'.

Technically.... anything compressed enough to fit that description will become a black hole.

So, should we ever become able to manipulate gravitons? Then, yes, we could compress a small amount of matter dwon untill we get a teeny, tiny black hole.

But I digress.

So.... the event posited/postulated at the very beginning of our reality... Is not quite like that at all.

 Ready to take another small step if you are.

Not at work.

I'm happy to have a serious conversation about it.  It has been awhile since I've discussed it, so curious as to where it has gone. Thanks for sharing and asking questions.

[LastPoet]

Max, when you refer to the BB as an 'explosion', that tells me you don't understand it well. Sure, scientists coin things with bad names, just like someone coined the Higgs boson "the god particle". You can do the research for your own. The BB wasn't an explosion like people picture it, but an extremely fast 'inflation' for lack of a better word.

PS- Funny, just as was was writing this, a radio debate started on one of my stations. Reason VS Faith. I am going to listen to that, as its been interesting. It must be a sign from Zuul, the eater of souls.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

"Ignorance" as defined by you?  If so, I'm not really interested.

I didn't suggest it as a "gotcha question."  Nobody is forced to answer it, and I didn't demand a specific response.  So how is any of it "gotcha?"  And on that note, I haven't suggested someone "owes" me anything.  You're attribute a value to something separate that has no value beyond your own imagination.  So to that, I say "nonsense.

Last thing, you are not in a position to tell me what I think, no more than I am in a position to tell you what you should think.  Besides that, Merry Christmas.

You seriously want a table-top creation of the universe? I was going to say "scaled down", but "dumbed down" is more appropriate.

[unfogged]

The ignorance displayed in that question is impressive.  


If you were genuinely curious you would read about the actual science from reputable sites instead of trying to pose what you think are "gotcha" questions.  Nobody owes you any explanations or education if you refuse to take even the simplest steps on your own.

"Ignorance" as defined by you?  If so, I'm not really interested.

Not as defined by me; as is obvious to anybody with even a basic understanding of the science. The question is a strawman caricature of the science and your claim of genuine curiosity is a transparent lie as I pointed out in the bolded part above.

I didn't suggest it as a "gotcha question."  Nobody is forced to answer it, and I didn't demand a specific response.  So how is any of it "gotcha?" 

You have been given answers about the big bang, evolution, etc and you consistently ignore them and return to your caricatures of what is claimed.  

And on that note, I haven't suggested someone "owes" me anything.  You're attribute a value to something separate that has no value beyond your own imagination.  So to that, I say "nonsense.

You have noted how often you have asked atheists for explanations of scientific hypotheses and theories and never gotten an answer.  Implicit in that is the idea that if atheists cant answer the questions to your satisfaction then they are also wrong about not believing in your god.  You do not have to state something explicitly for the tactic to be obvious to others.

Atheists don't need to know how the big bang happened - sometimes the best answer is "I don't know, it's being investigated".  Ignorance is not an argument for god despite it apparently being the primary arrow in your quiver.

Last thing, you are not in a position to tell me what I think, no more than I am in a position to tell you what you should think.  Besides that, Merry Christmas.

And yet you are doing just that.  I'm not on a theist board asking them to validate their position or making ridiculous assertions about things they believe and then trying to play the victim when somebody calls them on their bullshit.  Besides that, bless your little heart.

---

You seriously want a table-top creation of the universe? I was going to say "scaled down", but "dumbed down" is more appropriate.

I don't think he's actually dense enough not to understand that some things can't be scaled down like that but it plays well to his sense of superiority and lets him pretend he has scored points for his Jebus.

[T0 Th3 M4X]

Max, when you refer to the BB as an 'explosion', that tells me you don't understand it well. Sure, scientists coin things with bad names, just like someone coined the Higgs boson "the god particle". You can do the research for your own. The BB wasn't an explosion like people picture it, but an extremely fast 'inflation' for lack of a better word.

PS- Funny, just as was was writing this, a radio debate started on one of my stations. Reason VS Faith. I am going to listen to that, as its been interesting. It must be a sign from Zuul, the eater of souls.

Of course "I don't understand it."  What other possible conclusion could there be? 

It has been spoken of many different ways.  If you want to call it a "flat explosion", then feel free to show a demonstration of such as to educate me.  Regardless, Merry Christmas.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

What's the current "yeah, but" level?

[T0 Th3 M4X]

"Ignorance" as defined by you?  If so, I'm not really interested.

Not as defined by me; as is obvious to anybody with even a basic understanding of the science.  The question is a strawman caricature of the science and your claim of genuine curiosity is a transparent lie as I pointed out in the bolded part above.

I didn't suggest it as a "gotcha question."  Nobody is forced to answer it, and I didn't demand a specific response.  So how is any of it "gotcha?" 

You have been given answers about the big bang, evolution, etc and you consistently ignore them and return to your caricatures of what is claimed.  

And on that note, I haven't suggested someone "owes" me anything.  You're attribute a value to something separate that has no value beyond your own imagination.  So to that, I say "nonsense.

You have noted how often you have asked atheists for explanations of scientific hypotheses and theories and never gotten an answer.  Implicit in that is the idea that if atheists cant answer the questions to your satisfaction then they are also wrong about not believing in your god.  You do not have to state something explicitly for the tactic to be obvious to others.

Atheists don't need to know how the big bang happened - sometimes the best answer is "I don't know, it's being investigated".  Ignorance is not an argument for god despite it apparently being the primary arrow in your quiver.

Last thing, you are not in a position to tell me what I think, no more than I am in a position to tell you what you should think.  Besides that, Merry Christmas.

And yet you are doing just that.  I'm not on a theist board asking them to validate their position or making ridiculous assertions about things they believe and then trying to play the victim when somebody calls them on their bullshit.  Besides that, bless your little heart.

---

You seriously want a table-top creation of the universe? I was going to say "scaled down", but "dumbed down" is more appropriate.

I don't think he's actually dense enough not to understand that some things can't be scaled down like that but it plays well to his sense of superiority and lets him pretend he has scored points for his Jebus.

Ahhh, well it sounds like maybe your nose is growing.  Suggesting ignorance on my part rather than engage the subject indicates weakness on your part.  Also, I don't think I've discussed "evolution" with anybody on here to any significant level, so apparently you pulled that out of your behind.  On the basis of that, one can only determine you are not a scientist and have no idea how information is shared in said communities.  In light, you choose to spout logical fallacies. One person has been kind enough to engage in discussion, so I'll just listen to what they say and maybe they will teach me something of value.  You see, I don't mind listening and learning from others who have the stones to engage material.  Got it Dorothy?

[Peebothuhlu]

I'm happy to have a serious conversation about it.  It has been awhile since I've discussed it, so curious as to where it has gone. Thanks for sharing and asking questions.

 Cool!

So, long story short, there are multiple independant observations that... when those who've experts at studying and thinking about such things... Lead to the conclusion/idea that:

1) Currently all the observable galaxies (Give or take one or two that, due to line of travel) are moving away from one another.

2) If you 'Rewind' said motion then 'Everything' ends up resceeding back to a single 'Place'/'Point'.

So, at a place in the rather distant past 'Everything' as we know it (Matter, atoms, space/time etc) was simply a "One-ness'.

Now, much like the Black Hole, our current understanding of... 'Everything' breaks down when such ridonculous things are thought about.
What does it mean about 'Time/space' when the energies at a certain point have smooshed sich things into a no longer coherant or meaningful state?

So, that's the thought about past which, over time, led us to the here and now.

Does the above help? Sorry for my crud lay-man's handling of the subject.

Not at work.