The love toward the unbelievers!

[Napoléon]

How about Christians put their moral outrage towards self regulation -towards fighting for those in their church who have no money and no power? Oh wait they don't matter.

Reminds me of this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3rBG-pIuiWw

NO MUSLIM OUTRAGE!

[Doubting Thomas]

The thing is that I'm not condoning hate mail to AiG, which if they do indeed get it I'm sure not all of it is from atheists. But it's not atheists who are walking around with a holier-than-thou attitude just because they're atheists and telling everyone that since they're atheists, they follow a doctrine of love and holiness. In other words, atheists aren't the ones going around telling people that they're better people because they're atheists and then sending vile, profanity-laced hate mail to people they don't like. Atheists aren't pretending to be holy like Jesus on the one hand, then sending death threats and doing other things that Jesus wouldn't do on the other. Nor do we get to claim when AiG does receive hate mail from atheists that whoever sent it wasn't a true atheist, because a true atheist wouldn't say things like that.

I would like to see some of the "hate mail" that AiG gets, because I'm sure most of it is probably of the, "You are totally ignorant of evolutionary theory" kind.

[Statler Waldorf]

Yes I know what it means, but I reject its usage here.

I reject your existence now fuck off.
[/quote]

Does this constitute as an argument in your mind? That’s funny if it does.

Do you have any examples of this atheist hate mail that AIG get?

Only their word, which is all you have as well, Dawkins’ word.

“We certainly saw our share of “hate mail” and other forms of opposition over the construction of the Creation Museum. But at the time we also shared how God used this for good in so many ways…”

- AIG

They also had anti-Christian groups pose as over-the-top gay couples trying to attend a Valentine’s Day dinner at the Creation Museum solely to try and cause a scene and disrupt a private function. Luckily AiG was well aware of the plot and didn’t fall for it. So Richard Dawkins is delusional if he thinks he is the only one who has to deal with this sort of garbage.

Bah, I don't even want to hear this garbage. I've seen each of you claim some common religious belief, yourself specifically stating that the 38,000 denominations of christianity were all essentially the same. I've also had each of you try to fob off the "not really a christian" argument.

It's both. You claim to follow the same god, except when you don't. Very irritating. When's the last time you challenged an Old Earth Creationist? Or a non literal believer? Care to tell the catholics that they're apostates? Of course not, united front and all. Horseshit.

38,000? That seems to be a bit off, I imagine you are counting each “non-denominational” church as its own separate denomination which of course is just silly. Surprise! Surprise! That’s the number Wikipedia cites, now I know where you got it from. That’s funny considering they list less than 1,000 in their list of significant denominations.

The thing is that I'm not condoning hate mail to AiG, which if they do indeed get it I'm sure not all of it is from atheists. But it's not atheists who are walking around with a holier-than-thou attitude just because they're atheists and telling everyone that since they're atheists, they follow a doctrine of love and holiness. In other words, atheists aren't the ones going around telling people that they're better people because they're atheists and then sending vile, profanity-laced hate mail to people they don't like. Atheists aren't pretending to be holy like Jesus on the one hand, then sending death threats and doing other things that Jesus wouldn't do on the other.

I would like to see some of the "hate mail" that AiG gets, because I'm sure most of it is probably of the, "You are totally ignorant of evolutionary theory" kind.

You are misrepresenting the Christian teaching on man. Christians do not believe they are any better than anyone else because the Bible teaches they are not. Any Christian who believes otherwise is acting in a manner contrary to the teachings of scripture. Just read the words to “Amazing Grace” and tell me how Newton viewed himself. AIG posts and responds to all of their mail that says they are ignorant of evolution, they will not post the profane or vile mail; there is actually a disclaimer on their mail application stating that if you use profane or obscene language it will never be published on the site. They do this so it is not encouraged. I am sure that the majority of “hate mail” Dawkins gets is actually just people pointing out his factual errors and logical inconsistencies.

[Doubting Thomas]

Christians do not believe they are any better than anyone else

You must not know the same Christians I know. You're delusional if you don't think that most Christians think that they're better than atheists.

Any Christian who believes otherwise is acting in a manner contrary to the teachings of scripture.

Glad to see you got that "no true Christian" in there. I was starting to worry that you forgot how to make fallacious arguments.

I am sure that the majority of “hate mail” Dawkins gets is actually just people pointing out his factual errors and logical inconsistencies.

How is saying, "Fuck you!" and "I hope you burn in hell!" pointing out factual errors or logical inconsistencies?

[Ziploc Surprise]

Ohh,ohh,ohh. Someone got an ass reaming. I believe that Was Rush Limbaugh. If the Muslim's were to have outrage toward these atrocities and hypocrisies they might be more successful at convincing people that theirs is a religion of peace. But if I were to continue with this I suppose I would be an intolerant bastard who hates all Muslims. I digress.

As for Christians, just this past year I was in a bible study class at a Methodist church (a more liberal denomination of Christianity) and we were talking about the abuses of prosperity doctrine preachers. One of the men in the class who is a very kind and decent individual -he doesn't like to ruffle feathers- was talking about the church that his maid attends (he is an elderly man with a seriously handicapped wife to care for, he needs help where he can get it). Anyway it came out in a conversation that his maid recently had her electricity shut off due to the non payment of her bill. Yet this man knew that she put every spare dollar she had (and obviously some money she couldn't spare) into the collection plate at her church. Her pastor is fabulously rich. He owns a house that, by the looks of it, appears to be around 110000 sq feet or more. It sits on a couple acres of high priced land. He calls the place a "religious retreat" for tax evasion purposes. Recently he wanted a private jet and his congregation barfed up the money.

Anyway when I criticized him and some other prosperity doctrine preachers that I know about I got my ass reamed by someone else in the group. Though no one else joined in, no one else backed me up either. I was the intolerant asshole for criticizing "what I didn't know" as he said. Mind you I did know, I looked up the facts, but this fact landed on deaf ears. Anyway, this shocked me because the church was such a liberal church by comparison to most cf churches.


Recently I saw a flyer from some traveling prosperity doctrine preacher who was to preach in a city nearby. I wondered what would happen to me If I started a "don't waste your money on this guy campaign." At the time I was still attending church. Technically I was still a Christian. I would have been doing my part to help the religion self regulate. I had a feeling that If I ever did do this thing I think I had better check whether my home owner's insurance covered arson.

Now that I can't exactly call myself religious I suppose I'd be just another lost soul who didn't know any better. Or perhaps I would be a damned Atheist who wishes to destroy all religion by criticizing the abuses in a particular religion.

Religion and catch 22's. You're damned if you do and damned if you don't.

[Doubting Thomas]

Yeah, Christians at least pretend to be outraged whenever someone shoots an abortion doctor.

[Statler Waldorf]

You must not know the same Christians I know. You're delusional if you don't think that most Christians think that they're better than atheists.

Sounds like purely anecdotal evidence to me.

Glad to see you got that "no true Christian" in there. I was starting to worry that you forgot how to make fallacious arguments.

Be intellectually honest, where did I say they were not true Christians? I just said they were not acting in a manner consistent with scripture. Nowhere in scripture does it say Christians are any better than anyone else.

How is saying, "Fuck you!" and "I hope you burn in hell!" pointing out factual errors or logical inconsistencies?

That’s not the majority of his mail; you really think he read the majority of his mail in that short video? Get real. I know for a fact that CMI writes him mail all the time pointing out errors he has made, and he never reads their mail in his videos, or even bothers to respond to them. Very interesting indeed.

---

Ohh,ohh,ohh. Someone got an ass reaming. I believe that Was Rush Limbaugh. If the Muslim's were to have outrage toward these atrocities and hypocrisies they might be more successful at convincing people that theirs is a religion of peace. But if I were to continue with this I suppose I would be an intolerant bastard who hates all Muslims. I digress.

As for Christians, just this past year I was in a bible study class at a Methodist church (a more liberal denomination of Christianity) and we were talking about the abuses of prosperity doctrine preachers. One of the men in the class who is a very kind and decent individual -he doesn't like to ruffle feathers- was talking about the church that his maid attends (he is an elderly man with a seriously handicapped wife to care for, he needs help where he can get it). Anyway it came out in a conversation that his maid recently had her electricity shut off due to the non payment of her bill. Yet this man knew that she put every spare dollar she had (and obviously some money she couldn't spare) into the collection plate at her church. Her pastor is fabulously rich. He owns a house that, by the looks of it, appears to be around 110000 sq feet or more. It sits on a couple acres of high priced land. He calls the place a "religious retreat" for tax evasion purposes. Recently he wanted a private jet and his congregation barfed up the money.

Anyway when I criticized him and some other prosperity doctrine preachers that I know about I got my ass reamed by someone else in the group. Though no one else joined in, no one else backed me up either. I was the intolerant asshole for criticizing "what I didn't know" as he said. Mind you I did know, I looked up the facts, but this fact landed on deaf ears. Anyway, this shocked me because the church was such a liberal church by comparison to most cf churches.


Recently I saw a flyer from some traveling prosperity doctrine preacher who was to preach in a city nearby. I wondered what would happen to me If I started a "don't waste your money on this guy campaign." At the time I was still attending church. Technically I was still a Christian. I would have been doing my part to help the religion self regulate. I had a feeling that If I ever did do this thing I think I had better check whether my home owner's insurance covered arson.

Now that I can't exactly call myself religious I suppose I'd be just another lost soul who didn't know any better. Or perhaps I would be a damned Atheist who wishes to destroy all religion by criticizing the abuses in a particular religion.

Religion and catch 22's. You're damned if you do and damned if you don't.

---

Actually I think you’ll find it is the more conservative groups that despise the prosperity gospel movement….
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTc_FoELt8s

[Ziploc Surprise]

Statler W. said quote: "Actually I think you’ll find it is the more conservative groups that despise the prosperity gospel movement…."

Great!! After decades and decades of horrible abuse and the export of the bullshit to third world countries (which has been going on for decades also) someone is saying something about this! I'd say this is too little too late.

I have heard preacher after preacher call their congregation to action. To knock on doors to spread the word about Jesus, protest a nudie bar (this happened in Pennsylvania) and tell you how to vote (they give you little voter cards to help you). I have never heard any one of them call their congregation to protest a prosperity doctrine preacher. They don't name names, they don't ask people to write letters, they don't give people signs to put on their front lawn or t-shirts to wear. Hell most of them don't even preach against the prosperity doctrine.

Do you know why? Because most of these preachers are half way there themselves. Even the fairly liberal Methodist church I used to attend is starting to lean this way. People say that churches are hurting because of the bad economy. I say that doesn't justify preaching even a little bit of the prosperity doctrine. If you have to do dirty things to people to survive financially, I say die as a church. Or do the unspeakable thing....live withing your means. Sell your assets and meet in a park, warehouse (I just fixed a typo I made that read "whorehouse". lol) , rented building, private houses...I don't know get creative.

[Napoléon]

Does this constitute as an argument in your mind? That’s funny if it does.

No. Clearly it was just an insult.

[Doubting Thomas]

You must not know the same Christians I know. You're delusional if you don't think that most Christians think that they're better than atheists.

Sounds like purely anecdotal evidence to me.

You're just being willfully obtuse. There was a recent poll which showed that atheists are the least trusted group in America. I often hear Christians talk about how evil, immoral, and sinful atheists are. It's not hard to find those statements on the internet. In fact, it was recently on this very thread where you were trying to turn one of my statements around to say that atheists don't have any immorality. If you think that Christians don't think they're better than people who don't go to church, then you need to ask your fellow Christians about it. Even my own mother thinks she's better than people who don't go to church. It's just a Christian trait, like it or not. If you don't think that Christians think they're better than atheists, go to a Christian website and conduct a poll.

Be intellectually honest, where did I say they were not true Christians? I just said they were not acting in a manner consistent with scripture. Nowhere in scripture does it say Christians are any better than anyone else.

"Acting in a manner inconsistent with scripture" is usually code for "They're not doing what real Christians would do." I.E., not real Christians. So are they real Christians sending Dawkins hate mail or not? If they are, then it proves my point that Christians are hypocrites. If you claim they are not, then I am correct in that you are using the "no true Scotsman" fallacy.

That’s not the majority of his mail; you really think he read the majority of his mail in that short video? Get real. I know for a fact that CMI writes him mail all the time pointing out errors he has made, and he never reads their mail in his videos, or even bothers to respond to them. Very interesting indeed.

How do you know what email he's receiving? And who cares about the email CMI is sending him? The point of the entire video, which seemed to go way over your head, is that these so-called kind, loving Christians are sending him email full of vile hatred.