Covid 19 conspiracies dump

[arewethereyet]

I wouldn't call that an also, lol.  The vast majority of the people those nuts have propagandized are harmless in and of themselves.  They don't have it in them to commit a hate crime.  They aren't committed enough (about anything, usually) to plan or execute anything approaching the kinds of plots that might land a person on a no fly list.  If they had commitment like that, they wouldn't be so powerfully drawn to white victimization  narratives in the first place - which aren't much more than an excuse for their painful mediocrity and the frustration they feel with having failed to achieve whatever might fill the hole in their lives they hope to service with those narratives.

I really like your signature.

I was Signal. I think it meant I knew how to type.

[The Architect Of Fate]

The Canadian flag represents genocide to many indigenous people. All flags are offensive depending on who you ask.

At no point did Canada found itself on the preservation institution of slavery or white supremacy and make it explicit national policy. The Confederacy did. Sorry, your attempt at historical relativism fails. Not all historical evils are the same and it's beyond mere offense 

---

Are you trying to get me put on a no fly list or something? I've been crystal clear about where I stand. I'm against mandates and pro-civil liberties.

Nice sounding buzzwords that cloak the truth  

[Jackalope]

I wouldn't call that an also, lol.  The vast majority of the people those nuts have propagandized are harmless in and of themselves.  They don't have it in them to commit a hate crime.  They aren't committed enough (about anything, usually) to plan or execute anything approaching the kinds of plots that might land a person on a no fly list.  If they had commitment like that, they wouldn't be so powerfully drawn to white victimization  narratives in the first place - which aren't much more than an excuse for their painful mediocrity and the frustration they feel with having failed to achieve whatever might fill the hole in their lives they hope to service with those narratives.

I really like your signature.

I was Signal.  I think it meant I knew how to type.

I was Ordnance. That means I knew how to fix shit that blew up tanks .

[Rev. Rye]

The Canadian flag represents genocide to many indigenous people. All flags are offensive depending on who you ask.

At no point did Canada found itself on the preservation institution of slavery or white supremacy and make it explicit national policy. The Confederacy did. Sorry, your attempt at historical relativism fails. Not all historical evils are the same and it's beyond mere offense 

So, everything I know about the circumstances that led to the independence of Canada I learned from Chester Brown's Louis Riel. Is there anything in the Canadian Constitution that says anything like:

No bill of attainder, ex post facto law, or law denying or impairing the right of property in negro slaves shall be passed.

Because that's from the Confederate States of America's constitution (Article 1, Section 9, Clause 4)

Or is there a Canadian equivalent to the Declaration of Independence and is there anything in it that says

Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery, the greatest material interest of the world.... There was no choice left us but submission to the mandates of abolition, or a dissolution of the Union.

Because when the state of Mississippi decided to secede from the union, that's literally the first thing they said about why. Same with Texas, Same with Georgia, and South Carolina kept that part a little closer to the vest, but that only means that it took until the second half of the document for them to launch into a rant about it.

Did any of the members of John A. Macdonald's cabinet say anything like:

Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite idea; its foundations are laid, its corner-stone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery subordination to the superior race is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth.

That's from Confederacy VP Alexander Stephens' "Cornerstone Speech."

And, perhaps most importantly, is the Canadian flag being used predominantly by hate groups who (with varying degrees of openness) still largely support the above horseshit? Or are there some groups with some degree of power at least trying to fix the harm caused by said horseshit?

[Irreligious Atheist]

You're the one who was wearing confederate battle flag gear not long ago. Not me. Clearly there was a reason you chose to buy that gear, and you could see at the time that the flag is nuanced and means many different things to many people and is not like the Nazi flag, but now that you've all of a sudden decided that it's unacceptable, you sit on your high horse and assume things about the people who choose to associate with the flag, like you did. Should you be cancelled for wearing the flag in the past?

Yes, anti-black racists are more likely to fly the battle flag. Duh. I think we all know that. Republicans are more likely to fly the American flag, and therefore, anti-black racists associate themselves more with the American flag than any other group. This is true as well. This doesn't full stop make both of these flags racist by association. A lot of people fly both of those flags because they have pride in being a southerner, or an American. In any case, I think we have far more important things to focus on as a society than worrying about flags, and changing street names and school names. I'm not going to support any of this, because the woke will never be happy, like I showed you with that BLM article where they say they don't feel safe around anyone flying the American flag. Getting rid of flags really doesn't accomplish anything, because some people wake up just looking for things to get offended by, and they're going to find something to be offended by regardless.

I like to compare the battle flag to the Quran or the Bible. Some pretty nasty stuff in those books, right? Well, I'm perfectly fine with people carrying around those books too, and I'm going to treat them the same way I would the battle flag. As long as you're being peaceful, I'm not going to judge you for carrying around a book that talks about killing infidels and apostates, because I know that different Muslims have different views, and there are many softer Muslims or even progressive Muslims. Going by helios logic, I should just throw all of the Muslims in the basket of deplorables and say fuck them, right? That's not who I am. I refuse to take a big shit on Muslims because they carry around a Quran because they were brought up with it, just like I refuse to shit on all people who fly the battle flag, many of whom surely grew up seeing it as a symbol of southern pride.

[Mister Agenda]

I'll take someone who used to wear 'confederate battle flag gear' and now repudiates it over someone who continues to defend it any day of the week.

[The Grand Nudger]

Yeah, that's the ticket. The Flu Trux Klan was just carrying flags. They weren't up to anything else, they don't have any otherwise objectionable goals or demands. People are angry about a flag. Shit, I'm from stars and bars country and have plenty of questionable paraphernalia to that effect..and even I know better.

It's hard for me to believe you're this dumb....but then again....

At any rate, my personal take is that the flags can stay, we should be getting rid of the people. You'll probably want to resist the urge at some doomed attempt to concern troll a lib, about muslims or anything else, as I obviously don't have a liberal view on this and a great many other issues.

[Rev. Rye]

You're the one who was wearing confederate battle flag gear not long ago. Not me. Clearly there was a reason you chose to buy that gear, and you could see at the time that the flag is nuanced and means many different things to many people and is not like the Nazi flag, but now that you've all of a sudden decided that it's unacceptable, you sit on your high horse and assume things about the people who choose to associate with the flag, like you did. Should you be cancelled for wearing the flag in the past?

Yeah, the reason was because I liked "Sweet Home Alabama", and because, from where I stood then (probably 2009 or 2010), it looked like everyone involved, from the band to whatever Walmart or Target I bought it from, decided the issue was settled. Unfortunately, between Dylann Roof shooting up a black church while posing with the Confederate Flag, a bunch of racist asshats in Charlottesville cheering on violence at anyone who wanted to remove a statue of Robert E. Lee, and a cop brazenly deciding to publicly asphyxiate a black dude for passing off a fake $20 bill (and technically resisting arrest, not that it justified keeping it going for so long), it turned out it wasn't. And from the looks of it, practically everybody who bought into the "heritage not hate" idea in good faith has abandoned it by this point.

And, frankly, even if I never bought into it, I'd still be against 'canceling' anyone who did but eventually repudiated it. I never wanted to be one of those wokescolds who wants to find an excuse to ostracise anyone who did anything problematic, even if they ended up seeing the error of their ways eventually. If nothing else, I believe we should always keep this point in mind:

(Admittedly, Keynes might not have said those words; doesn't make the point any less valid.)

Since you're still hung up on the difference between the Stars and Bars and the Stars and Stripes or whatever nickname they've come up with for the Canadian flag, here's one question I keep in mind:

Admittedly, with such a massive issue as systemic racism, it's probably fairer to ask "Have you at least tried to rehabilitate yourself?" There's a lot of right-wing groups that fly the American flag because they see their fucked-up vision as being what America should be. While the left, in my experience, tends to eschew the focus on these sort of random symbols, (because we tend to favour substance over style in our views), they still see something positive in the sort of ideals America and its flag represents, even some things the Right likes to claim they support: things like freedom, equality, or opportunity. We'd just prefer if we actually walked the walk.

And on Canada, from what I understand, they're at least trying (and, if I understand it correctly, doing  a better job than in the US) to rectify all the problems that have resulted in them getting a raw deal from the white people who run the country for centuries. Hell, from what I understand of Justin Trudeau's blackface controversy, it looks like he's at least done what he can to not be that sort of jackass anymore.

As for the people who still use the Confederate flag? Well, if they're politically engaged at all, it's pretty obvious where they stand. You could probably find a hundred groups that both use the Swastika and advocate for left-wing causes (even if they're all based out of Asia, where the Dharmic religions are still likely to use it, particularly the Jains, who A: made it a MAJOR religious symbol, and B: have a belief system that's probably the furthest thing you can possibly get from Nazism) before you find one group that waves the Confederate flag and actually believes in racial equality. Especially now.

And given that these truckers are from Canada, the idea of them using it strictly to celebrate their heritage is laughably unlikely. And, frankly, it's just icing on the cake in the whole recipe of "what the fuck is wrong with these people."

[The Grand Nudger]

Did they ever find the offending counterfeit 20?

---

And from the looks of it, practically everybody who bought into the "heritage not hate" idea in good faith has abandoned it by this point.

:raises hand:  Yeah, just another one of those things, from my view, where we can't have nice things because some jackass like IA can't handle it. Spoken about it here years back, iirc. Just like we..and canadia, and every other functioning 1st world country have a mound of exemptions for vaccinations and vaccination mandates - which is great, until white separatists use that to kill a million of my fellow americans. Mostly poor, mostly old...and picking their pockets while they're at it. If we wanna talk about no fly lists, I'm pretty sure it's my own private thoughts about what to do with these fuckers that runs afoul of the standards - and, unlike the chinless master race cosplayers of the world, I actually have the courage of my convictions.

[Irreligious Atheist]

You're the one who was wearing confederate battle flag gear not long ago. Not me. Clearly there was a reason you chose to buy that gear, and you could see at the time that the flag is nuanced and means many different things to many people and is not like the Nazi flag, but now that you've all of a sudden decided that it's unacceptable, you sit on your high horse and assume things about the people who choose to associate with the flag, like you did. Should you be cancelled for wearing the flag in the past?

Yeah, the reason was because I liked "Sweet Home Alabama", and because, from where I stood then (probably 2009 or 2010), it looked like everyone involved, from the band to whatever Walmart or Target I bought it from, decided the issue was settled. Unfortunately, between Dylann Roof shooting up a black church while posing with the Confederate Flag, a bunch of racist asshats in Charlottesville cheering on violence at anyone who wanted to remove a statue of Robert E. Lee, and a cop brazenly deciding to publicly asphyxiate a black dude for passing off a fake $20 bill (and technically resisting arrest, not that it justified keeping it going for so long), it turned out it wasn't. And from the looks of it, practically everybody who bought into the "heritage not hate" idea in good faith has abandoned it by this point.

And, frankly, even if I never bought into it, I'd still be against 'canceling' anyone who did but eventually repudiated it. I never wanted to be one of those wokescolds who wants to find an excuse to ostracise anyone who did anything problematic, even if they ended up seeing the error of their ways eventually. If nothing else, I believe we should always keep this point in mind:

(Admittedly, Keynes might not have said those words; doesn't make the point any less valid.)

Since you're still hung up on the difference between the Stars and Bars and the Stars and Stripes or whatever nickname they've come up with for the Canadian flag, here's one question I keep in mind:

Admittedly, with such a massive issue as systemic racism, it's probably fairer to ask "Have you at least tried to rehabilitate yourself?" There's a lot of right-wing groups that fly the American flag because they see their fucked-up vision as being what America should be. While the left, in my experience, tends to eschew the focus on these sort of random symbols, (because we tend to favour substance over style in our views), they still see something positive in the sort of ideals America and its flag represents, even some things the Right likes to claim they support: things like freedom, equality, or opportunity. We'd just prefer if we actually walked the walk.

And on Canada, from what I understand, they're at least trying (and, if I understand it correctly, doing  a better job than in the US) to rectify all the problems that have resulted in them getting a raw deal from the white people who run the country for centuries. Hell, from what I understand of Justin Trudeau's blackface controversy, it looks like he's at least done what he can to not be that sort of jackass anymore.

As for the people who still use the Confederate flag? Well, if they're politically engaged at all, it's pretty obvious where they stand. You could probably find a hundred groups that both use the Swastika and advocate for left-wing causes (even if they're all based out of Asia, where the Dharmic religions are still likely to use it, particularly the Jains, who A: made it a MAJOR religious symbol, and B: have a belief system that's probably the furthest thing you can possibly get from Nazism) before you find one group that waves the Confederate flag and actually believes in racial equality. Especially now.

And given that these truckers are from Canada, the idea of them using it strictly to celebrate their heritage is laughably unlikely. And, frankly, it's just icing on the cake in the whole recipe of "what the fuck is wrong with these people."

I take your Dylann Roof and George Floyd and I raise you a 9/11, countless other terrorist attacks, honour killings, throwing gays off roofs, grooming gangs, clit choppings, etc. Do these things make it unacceptable for a Muslim to own a Quran? No, you say? But one mans actions, Dylan Roof, make it unacceptable for anyone whatsoever to fly a flag? Yeah, that logic may work for you, and I know that's the wokeist narrative the media pushed that we're supposed to buy into, but I'm not buying it for one second. Why did you ignore my Quran comparison?

Helios is the same as a white nationalist, but only the opposite side of the coin. They operate in the exact same manner. Mostly on emotion, and drenched with hatred for others. The white nationalists hate the Jews because the Jews kick ass and take names and some white people are jealous, and they hate the symbol of the Quran. In the same manner, Helios has just replaced the Jews with the whites, and the symbol of the Quran with the symbol of the stars and bars. As far as I go, I don't hate either side. I'm here judging people on their actual actions and beliefs. Not crying over symbols. If Helios had his way, people who associate with the battle flag would be de-personed, scrubbed from the internet, and locked up in prison for hate speech. In the same manner, white nationalists want to ban immigration from Muslim countries, because they hate the Muslims like Helios hates the whites. Like I said, one in the same. Two sides of the same coin.