I will prove to you that God exists

[brewer]

You're not special Drew, no human is, at least not in the way you want them to be.

Plus, if a human wants to be special, they'd be better off by paying more attention to other humans than gods.

[Drew_2013]

[quote pid='2228209' dateline='1743962604']
Occam's razor is tied to simplicity, though. It's basically the principle of parsimony, which is simplicity. And people have debates about what sort of "simplicity" is relevant here. The more important point, however, is that a multiverse may be necessary because of something tied to the principle of sufficient reason ... or the principle of plenitude or something else. As such, not a butchering of Occam's razor.

You mean hokum. Multiverse increases entities to infinity and beyond, Occam would turn over in his grave. A corollary to Occam's razor is to offer explanations that are too simple. Like the notion the universe popped into existence, uncaused out of nothing.

Neither the double slit experiment or cosmic inflation support the idea of a multiverse directly, so your first two sentences here are iffy. Pocket universes aren't reasons but features that are posited or concluded. That said, some scientists do argue for some multiverse or another by appealing to observations made in quantum physics and cosmology, but atheists are allowed to resort to pure reason to argue for what's more likely (just as much as theists like to do). You gave one fair argument for a multiverse in your last sentence here. It seems like if we have multiple planets, multiple solar systems, multiple galaxies, maybe we also have multiple local universes. If you then add other reasons to accept a multiverse, you might come up with something compelling.

Multiverse is a plausible explanation for how we find ourselves in a universe with the exacting characteristics to cause life to exist. However minus direct evidence of other universes, the fact we don't know how this one came about its an hypothesis at best.  

As for "fine-tuning", this is just an assumption, not an observed fact. A multiverse theory need not accept such an assumption, and it certainly doesn't need to explain it.

Its not an assumption and it does need an explanation and it is connected to multiverse.

All worlds, including this world, simply are.

That's really sweet. 

Or the universe has always been. And intention is something only us limited beings require.

Nonsense...name one scientist who thinks that.

That's a very tall drink of water and that's why even non-religious people think our existence was intentionally caused. Including a lot of scientists.

Name one.

According to the poll, just over half of scientists (51%) believe in some form of deity or higher power; specifically, 33% of scientists say they believe in God, while 18% believe in a universal spirit or higher power.

[/quote]

[arewethereyet]

[quote pid='2228209' dateline='1743962604']
Occam's razor is tied to simplicity, though. It's basically the principle of parsimony, which is simplicity. And people have debates about what sort of "simplicity" is relevant here. The more important point, however, is that a multiverse may be necessary because of something tied to the principle of sufficient reason ... or the principle of plenitude or something else. As such, not a butchering of Occam's razor.

You mean hokum. Multiverse increases entities to infinity and beyond, Occam would turn over in his grave. A corollary to Occam's razor is to offer explanations that are too simple. Like the notion the universe popped into existence, uncaused out of nothing.

Neither the double slit experiment or cosmic inflation support the idea of a multiverse directly, so your first two sentences here are iffy. Pocket universes aren't reasons but features that are posited or concluded. That said, some scientists do argue for some multiverse or another by appealing to observations made in quantum physics and cosmology, but atheists are allowed to resort to pure reason to argue for what's more likely (just as much as theists like to do). You gave one fair argument for a multiverse in your last sentence here. It seems like if we have multiple planets, multiple solar systems, multiple galaxies, maybe we also have multiple local universes. If you then add other reasons to accept a multiverse, you might come up with something compelling.

Multiverse is a plausible explanation for how we find ourselves in a universe with the exacting characteristics to cause life to exist. However minus direct evidence of other universes, the fact we don't know how this one came about its an hypothesis at best.  

As for "fine-tuning", this is just an assumption, not an observed fact. A multiverse theory need not accept such an assumption, and it certainly doesn't need to explain it.

Its not an assumption and it does need an explanation and it is connected to multiverse.

All worlds, including this world, simply are.

That's really sweet. 

Or the universe has always been. And intention is something only us limited beings require.

Nonsense...name one scientist who thinks that.

That's a very tall drink of water and that's why even non-religious people think our existence was intentionally caused. Including a lot of scientists.

Name one.

According to the poll, just over half of scientists (51%) believe in some form of deity or higher power; specifically, 33% of scientists say they believe in God, while 18% believe in a universal spirit or higher power.

[/quote]

The number of people who believe in a thing is not proof of anything other than that a certain number of people believe in something.  The fact that they are scientists means nothing without the appropriate testing and the ability to recreate the same results time and again.

[Ivan Denisovich]

If the universe is "fine tuned" for life, why does 99.99... % of it kill us (too hot, too cold, no atmosphere, toxic atmosphere, radiation etc.)

I'm sure that god did best he could. I mean you can't expect too much from a guy who cannot prevail upon iron chariots.

[Drew_2013]

You're not special Drew, no human is, at least not in the way you want them to be.

Plus, if a human wants to be special, they'd be better off by paying more attention to other humans than gods.

If humans aren't special why pay any attention to them? Even if our universe was inadvertently caused by mindless natural forces, humans are transcendent to the universe in that we can choose to create things, plan for the future, figure out how the universe works. Natural forces can't do anything but react.

[brewer]

You're not special Drew, no human is, at least not in the way you want them to be.

Plus, if a human wants to be special, they'd be better off by paying more attention to other humans than gods.

If humans aren't special why pay any attention to them? Even if our universe was inadvertently caused by mindless natural forces, humans are transcendent to the universe in that we can choose to create things, plan for the future, figure out how the universe works. Natural forces can't do anything but react.

You really have self inflicted comprehension issues.

[Drew_2013]

If the universe is "fine tuned" for life, why does 99.99... % of it kill us (too hot, too cold, no atmosphere, toxic atmosphere, radiation etc.)

If only one civilization occurs in every galaxy that billions of civilizations. Yet on planet earth all those conditions for life occurred.

[The Architect Of Fate]

If only one civilization occurs in every galaxy that billions of civilizations. Yet on planet earth all those conditions for life occurred.

Irrelevant the universe overwhelmingly unfavourable to life. Yup life favourable to the earth occurred on a planet that was favourable to kind of life that occurred on earth .......And?

[The Architect Of Fate]

If humans aren't special why pay any attention to them?

So your assumption is humans have to be the ultimate thing in the universe to matter ?

 Even if our universe was inadvertently caused by mindless natural forces, humans are transcendent to the universe in that we can choose to create things, plan for the future, figure out how the universe works. Natural forces can't do anything but react.

This is not transcendence as all those abilities rely on those very natural forces

[Sheldon]

Yeah, I asked too. Not even up to par with anything as sad as Kalam's Comical Argument. Pretty weak sauce.

All he’s really managed is to ‘prove’ to himself that God exists.

Boru

That seems to be a fairly low bar he's cleared.