Teaching Evolution in OK

[Anomalocaris]

Of course science is an unbearable threat to both faith and the prestige of faith, otherwise the faithful wouldn't try so hard to fight science while attempting to avail themselves of the prestige of science by flying a false science flag

No, science is a threat to fundamentalism and a view that Scripture (Bible, Koran or whatever religious text you prefer) it is not a threat to faith itself as can be seen by the comparatively few actual scientists that have religious faith.

No it can't.

I personally knew a highly respected applied physicist whose contribution to the invention of the MRI earned him nominations for a Nobel Prize in physics by nobel laureates in Physics. The MRI inventor was also an outspoken creationists and biblical fundamentalist. In the end, Nobel Prize was shared between a few other co-inventors of the MRI, but denied to him, despite the fact that in academic circles it is thought that his contribution surpassed those of his collegues. It is thought that recognition was given to others in preference to him due to his well-known fundamentalist beliefs.

So the fact that there are actual scientists who holds a certain view by no means indicates the view can be accommodated to science. Training in science improves the odds that the trainees would adopt measures against intellectual dissonance in his private world view. It does not guaranty it.

Did you even read what I wrote? Who the hell said anything about accommodation? I specifically said science is not compatible with fundamentalism. Religious faith does not have to be fundamentalism AS CAN BE SEEN by the real scientists that have religious faith (not fundamentalism you illiterate bastard).

Did you read what I said, you illiterate bastard? That some scientist hold a certain view does not means science is compatible with it, just as the fact that some scientist have "non-fundamentalist" religious faith, does not mean science fundamentally can accommodate, or is compatible with, "non-fundamentalist" religious faith.

[Phil]

On the late great Irreligiosophy podcast, ex-Mormon Dr. Chuck always said that one of the biggest things that eroded his faith was medical school and his internship. Everyone knew he was a Mormon and his superiors were constantly questioning his decisions and the basis behind them. He was asked for evidence so much it sort of fucked him over as far as faith.

Take a look at Dr. Francis Collins. He is far from what anyone would call a fundamentalist yet he still holds Christianity by faith. It's called compartmentalization.

[thesummerqueen]

I wasn't expecting this thread to start getting the slightest bit heated. I think it's ridiculous to hold religious views in the face of science, but clearly some people do. It leads to massive cognitive dissonance, but everyone is susceptible to that.

Science doesn't provide you with a moral guideline to life. Some people choose to associate with a religion because they feel religion does. Its when they move it to the realm of "reality" that pisses me off.

[Phil]

I wasn't expecting this thread to start getting the slightest bit heated. I think it's ridiculous to hold religious views in the face of science, but clearly some people do. It leads to massive cognitive dissonance, but everyone is susceptible to that.

Science doesn't provide you with a moral guideline to life. Some people choose to associate with a religion because they feel religion does. Its when they move it to the realm of "reality" that pisses me off.

Correct. Fundamentalism is the problem not religious faith. Nobody is saying faith is logical, reasonable or scientific. Faith is still a dumb belief but it isn't threatened by science. Some people though seem to be unable to differentiate between religious faith and full blown fundamentalist idiocy.

[thesummerqueen]

I don't quite agree with that - moral guidelines from a religion aren't quite the same as faith.

[Anomalocaris]

I wasn't expecting this thread to start getting the slightest bit heated. I think it's ridiculous to hold religious views in the face of science, but clearly some people do. It leads to massive cognitive dissonance, but everyone is susceptible to that.

Science doesn't provide you with a moral guideline to life. Some people choose to associate with a religion because they feel religion does. Its when they move it to the realm of "reality" that pisses me off.

Correct. Fundamentalism is the problem not religious faith. Nobody is saying faith is logical, reasonable or scientific. Faith is still a dumb belief but it isn't threatened by science. Some people though seem to be unable to differentiate between religious faith and full blown fundamentalist idiocy.

So long as one retains belief in any aspect that uniquely distinguishes one's religion, the difference between religious faith and fundamentalism is just a difference of capriciously delineated degree, without a fundamental distinction.

[Doubting Thomas]

I am a young-age creationist because that is my understanding of the Scripture. As I shared with my professors years ago when I was in college, if all the evidence in the universe turned against creationism, I would be the first to admit it, but I would still be a creationist because that is what the Word of God seems to indicate.

So if reality contradicts the bible (and it does), then reality is wrong! I don't understand how anyone could have this view and be a scientist, since this is totally 180 degrees backwards from the scientific method.

[Anomalocaris]

I am a young-age creationist because that is my understanding of the Scripture. As I shared with my professors years ago when I was in college, if all the evidence in the universe turned against creationism, I would be the first to admit it, but I would still be a creationist because that is what the Word of God seems to indicate.

So if reality contradicts the bible (and it does), then reality is wrong! I don't understand how anyone could have this view and be a scientist, since this is totally 180 degrees backwards from the scientific method.

Appearently the little scrap of beduin scribble mistranscribed over the years is the true word of god, but all the evidence in the universe that one could measure and verify is not the true word of god.

PhD and number of neurons that might fire is not an indication of intelligence. This idiot is STUPID.

[Doubting Thomas]

Not to mention that this is the adult equivalent of a 4-year-old sticking his fingers in his ears and saying, "La la la la la I can't hear you!"

[passionatefool]

lol thanks thesummerqueen

So for those of you who think that Oklahoma is filled with raging fundamentalists who hate anyone who presents evolution…well, maybe you are right, but the raging fundamentalists do not generally attend universities.

I hope he is right. I would hate having to deal with them all over again!

High school, atleast the one I'm attending, failed at teaching evolution and biology in general. It irritates me how the teacher slightly touch on the theory then quickly move pass it. I bet 99% of the students graduating probably still asking "if human evolved from monkeys why are there still monkeys?" as if that questions make any sense at all....but they seem to love it because I had come across quite a few that tried to challenged me with their apparently ultimate victorious question of stupidity.

Religion didn't provide morality. Most of it is pretty common sense such as love and crap, but what we have is more violent and demorallizing belief that result in genocides and atrocities. Religion scriptures was written by human with ancient narrow-minded mind set which already comprehend the idea of sympathy because it is instinct but also outdated ancient belief.