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The Spirit (Hebrew Ruach / Greek Pneuma)
#1
The Spirit (Hebrew Ruach / Greek Pneuma)
The Hebrew ruach and the Greek pneuma both mean to breath or blow. They are often, but not always translated as spirit. Sometimes depending upon the context of these original words they can be translated as breath, breeze, wind ... in a basic sense the Bible's use of the Hebrew and Greek words which are translated as spirit has a meaning of any invisible active force. We breathe which gives us life, but we can't see the air we breathe. The wind blows the leaves around but we can't really see the wind.

The Greek word pneuma is where we get our English pneumatic and pneumonia.

An extended meaning of the word spirit is also used, both in the Bible and in modern day thinking. The spirit of the horse was broken, the spirit of the crowd is merry, he is a mean spirited person. These are used in a similar sense as wind or breathe ... there is some invisible force which produces some result. You can't see it, but it has an effect. A mental inclination, for example.

In many cases throughout both the Hebrew and Greek texts the same words are applied to both God and spirit creatures. Jehovah God and his angels are, in a sense at least to us mortals, an invisible active force.

The Holy Spirit

The holy spirit was not originally thought to be a person and part of the "Godhead" until the fourth century C.E., the early church fathers didn't believe or teach the personification of the holy spirit. Justin Martyr of the second century C.E. taught that the holy spirit was an 'influence or mode of operation of the Deity' and Hippolytus ascribed no personality to the holy spirit. Up until the apostate church adopted the much older trinity doctrine there was no confusion that the holy spirit was simply Jehovah God's active force.

Spiritism And The Pagan Spirit

The Greek word for "spiritism" is pharmakia, from which comes the English word pharmacy. Vine's Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words says:

"(Eng., pharmacy etc.) primarily signified the use of medicine, drugs, spells; then, poisoning; then, sorcery. In sorcery, the use of drugs, whether simple or potent, was generally accompanied by incantations and appeals to occult powers, with the provision of various charms, amulets, etc., professedly designed to keep the applicant or patient from the attention and power of demons, but actually to impress the applicant with the mysterious resources and powers of the sorcerer."

In both ancient pagan as well as modern day primitive cultures spiritism was practiced with the use of drugs being used in order to contact the dead or gain access to the 'spirit' world. Since the Bible teaches that the dead are conscious of nothing, that the life force, or spirit, returns to God upon death, and that the attempt to contact the dead is an abomination - the modern day Christian teachings ... having been heavily influenced by Pagan teachings on the spirit is in contrast to the Bible and spiritually dangerous.
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#2
RE: The Spirit (Hebrew Ruach / Greek Pneuma)
Is there a discussion to be had, or is this just an entymology lesson?
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#3
RE: The Spirit (Hebrew Ruach / Greek Pneuma)
(November 2, 2008 at 11:27 pm)Meatball Wrote: Is there a discussion to be had, or is this just an entymology lesson?

Well, I'll tell you what, buddy ... if you couldn't do anything with that maybe I could help you get started.

What do you think makes more sense. The spirit is the air we breath and mental inclination ... wind, or is it some magic fairy dust part of us that goes to a place as good as we can imagine once we die if we are good little boys and girls - because that the first choice is what Jehovah God's word the Bible said and the second is what the average ignorant Xian and thus critical (but no less ignorant) Atheist thinks the Bible said.

If you don't see a problem with that, then you and many other Atheists have some issues that have NOTHING to do with any of it and all of this is about something else. But [oh, dear!] what ever could it be?!

Three guesses anyone?
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#4
RE: The Spirit (Hebrew Ruach / Greek Pneuma)
I can get behind the concept of a "spirit" being a primitive explanation melting together the concepts of "life-force" and "conciousness". I think we already have better words for those however, rendering the word "spirit" obsolete. Sorta like phlogiston.
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#5
RE: The Spirit (Hebrew Ruach / Greek Pneuma)
(November 3, 2008 at 12:18 am)Meatball Wrote: I can get behind the concept of a "spirit" being a primitive explanation melting together the concepts of "life-force" and "conciousness". I think we already have better words for those however, rendering the word "spirit" obsolete. Sorta like phlogiston.

Bullshit.

Phlogiston ... that really burns my ass. It wouldn't explain wind and breeze or spirit creatures though, would it? you know what I think? I think you just hate the word spirit on principal.

Besides - it wouldn't explain pneumatic or pneumonia.

Anyway conciousness? How come you can’t spell consciousness but you can spell phlogiston? Pushed the wrong thingamajig …


or are you STONED?
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#6
RE: The Spirit (Hebrew Ruach / Greek Pneuma)
I don't really know how I could hate a word, but I can assure you I've got no beef with the word "spirit". I don't see what pneumonia has to do with the concept of a spirit other than entymology.

You'll have to forgive my shitty spelling, I'm at work through a clunky proxy with no spellcheck.

My stance is that the concept of spirit is an outdated one. A couple hundred years ago it was a great way of explaining life, especially with regards to religion. We've simply moved on, and have better words with more meaning.
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#7
RE: The Spirit (Hebrew Ruach / Greek Pneuma)
(November 3, 2008 at 12:12 am)Daystar Wrote: What do you think makes more sense. The spirit is the air we breath and mental inclination ... wind, or is it some magic fairy dust part of us that goes to a place as good as we can imagine once we die if we are good little boys and girls - because that the first choice is what Jehovah God's word the Bible said and the second is what the average ignorant Xian and thus critical (but no less ignorant)

Er ... there's no such thing as spirit (in a supernatural sense)?

Kyu
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#8
RE: The Spirit (Hebrew Ruach / Greek Pneuma)
The problem with spirit is that it sounds religiously related...it doesn't have to be but it sounds it, unless you''re talking about alcohol.
Its like how when Einstein and Hawking, Pantheists etc, use the word "God" in a metaphorical sense. I mean if you use the word "God" and spirit in a metaphorical sense, you CAN use it to describe anything. as Steven Weinberg said, and I paraphrase: "If you say God is energy, or God is the universe then you can find God in a lump of coal".
So the problem with these words is people will think there's something supernatural in them even when you're only using them metaphorically.
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#9
RE: The Spirit (Hebrew Ruach / Greek Pneuma)
Quote:It wouldn't explain wind and breeze or spirit creatures though, would it?
Why would "spirit" explain the wind? The wind is caused by different air pressures meeting. As for spirit creatures, can you first actually prove they exist?
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#10
RE: The Spirit (Hebrew Ruach / Greek Pneuma)
Meatball,

I have no room to criticize anyone on their spelling. I am far to bad at it myself to be pedantic. I was just fucking with you.

(November 3, 2008 at 12:51 am)Meatball Wrote: My stance is that the concept of spirit is an outdated one. A couple hundred years ago it was a great way of explaining life, especially with regards to religion. We've simply moved on, and have better words with more meaning.

You missed the reality that preceeded the ignorance of a couple hundred years ago. Look beyond the religion.
(November 3, 2008 at 7:46 am)EvidenceVsFaith Wrote: The problem with spirit is that it sounds religiously related...it doesn't have to be but it sounds it, unless you''re talking about alcohol.
Its like how when Einstein and Hawking, Pantheists etc, use the word "God" in a metaphorical sense. I mean if you use the word "God" and spirit in a metaphorical sense, you CAN use it to describe anything. as Steven Weinberg said, and I paraphrase: "If you say God is energy, or God is the universe then you can find God in a lump of coal".
So the problem with these words is people will think there's something supernatural in them even when you're only using them metaphorically.

Good points! Alcohol is an excellent example.
(November 3, 2008 at 12:46 pm)Tiberius Wrote:
Quote:It wouldn't explain wind and breeze or spirit creatures though, would it?
Why would "spirit" explain the wind? The wind is caused by different air pressures meeting. As for spirit creatures, can you first actually prove they exist?

The Hebrew word ruach can be translated as spirit or wind, breeze etc. depending upon the context. Job 21:18 - Do they become like straw before a wind (ruach), And like chaff that a storm wind has stolen away? The Greek word translated spirit is pneuma from which we derive the English pneumatic. It just means any invisible active force. The wind we can't see but the leaves blowing we can. We can't see the air we breath but it allows us to live.
(November 3, 2008 at 6:28 am)Kyuuketsuki Wrote: Er ... there's no such thing as spirit (in a supernatural sense)?

Perhaps you should rephrase that, Kyu ... there's no such thing as spirit (in a supernatural sense) that you are aware of?
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