Christians

[Edwardo Piet]

Ecolox,

Give me one example of something that is positive that belief in God can give you, that atheism can't, that isn't merely the placebo effect - and that can actually be backed up by evidence.

EvF

[ecolox]

---

Since you seemed to miss the majority of the salient points, I see no reason in responding to your long sermon of unqualified statements. I don't care to keep repeating my points for you, they are readily available. (one example: you have not explained the point of life - you just said you want to make it more enjoyable - why? it doesn't make sense without answering why).

I did see something worth responding to at the end of this quote - about finding a purpose. You want me to abandon the purpose I have found, and look for one that meets your criteria? No thanks - yours doesn't make any sense, which is why I found mine. You claim there is no evidence, and I say if there is no afterlife then this life doesn't mean anything.

If you will explain why you exist (and why the universe exists), then we will talk. Explain how life means something if it is ultimately obliterated and nothing lasts - then we'll talk. Imagine if carpenters built homes for the homeless that disappeared instantly - would you call the carpenters good? Why? What point would there be in writing a book with disappearing ink?

You just don't get it, and for that I pity you.

Well that was a pathetic responce. I've said all I needed to say, if you cannot get past your delusions then this debate is over. You fail to provide evidence for an afterlife and a creator. If you think it doesn't make sense to you, fine! It makes sense to me and many others. I am not going to waste any more time with you. You ask for why live and the purpose and I have stated them. I think it's just beyond you to understand. You have your head shoved so far up superstition's arse that you cannot see past it.

You just don't get it, and for that I pity you.

The feeling is mutual.

You claim there is no evidence, and I say if there is no afterlife then this life doesn't mean anything.

I answered this in a previous post. Don't expect me to repeat or change my response.

If you will explain why you exist (and why the universe exists)

I do not know how the universe began and nor do you. We can only assume at this point.

No thanks - yours doesn't make any sense, which is why I found mine.

The feeling is mutual.

--
I'm still waiting for evidence of an afterlife and god.

---

Again, you fail to respond to any points. You just start complaining. You're waiting for evidence (it's all around you), and I'm waiting for a general explanation of why the universe exists - from you...so far you've assumed ignorance.

Now, why would an author write a book with disappearing ink? And why do you live if you will soon cease to exist - along with everything you know and love? I believe that's rather vain and futile of you. Why drag out a meaningless existence?

Yes, the debate is over, for you failed to participate.

[Ace Otana]

Again, you fail to respond to any points. You just start complaining. You're waiting for evidence (it's all around you), and I'm waiting for a general explanation of why the universe exists - from you...so far you've assumed ignorance.

Now, why would an author write a book with disappearing ink? And why do you live if you will soon cease to exist - along with everything you know and love? I believe that's rather vain and futile of you. Why drag out a meaningless existence?

Yes, the debate is over, for you failed to participate.

Again, you fail to respond to any points.

Already have, see previous post. I will not repeat nor change my responce.
Next!

You just start complaining.

I'm complaining? What do you think you are doing right now? I'm simply stating that I've already answered before and have covered all the points you mentioned. Not my fault you disagree with it.
I'm asking for evidence, that does not constitute to complaining.

You're waiting for evidence (it's all around you)

Be specific! What evidence? What is it that is all round me that is somehow evidence of your assertions?
Details!

I'm waiting for a general explanation of why the universe exists - from you...so far you've assumed ignorance.

You consider it ignorant of me to admit that I do not know the answer to how and why the universe exists? I consider it being honest not ignorant. What do you think you are doing? Your claiming the existence of a god and afterlife despite total lack of supporting evidence. It's ignorant to claim that you know how the universe began based on belief with no supporting evidence.

Yes, the debate is over

Wow! Now this I agree with!

you failed to participate.

You failed to provide evidence.

Next!

[ecolox]

Give me one example of something that is positive that belief in God can give you, that atheism can't, that isn't merely the placebo effect - and that can actually be backed up by evidence.

Hope and a reason for existing - results in a different lifestyle. Belief in God results from seeing this existence (all the evidence in the world) and answering the question of where it came from...

For you - where did this existence come from? Give me one explanation, so I know you're living for a reason.

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I'm waiting for a general explanation of why the universe exists - from you...so far you've assumed ignorance.

You consider it ignorant of me to admit that I do not know the answer to how and why the universe exists? I consider it being honest not ignorant. What do you think you are doing? Your claiming the existence of a god and afterlife despite total lack of supporting evidence. It's ignorant to claim that you know how the universe began based on belief with no supporting evidence.

You are relying on the ignorant position - why do you think that suffices? It is honestly ignorant.

The supporting evidence for an ultimate cause is our existence. You are happy with ignorance. I know that there must be a cause, and I am seeking to explain what the cause must have been. God is what I have found to be true thus far.

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theVOID, you haven't explained why you exist, I have. You haven't even laid out the possibilities. There isn't much point in even addressing you unless you can do just that.

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13.7 billion years ago the universe existed in a state we call the singularity, an infinitely dense point of energy containing all matter, energy, space and time......

That's what happened, what's your theory? Oh, let me guess, "Let there be light" right? How very rational and fact-based of you.

You haven't answered the question of why you exist - because you failed to explain where the singularity came from. You have to provide an explanation for our universe. You may as well have said that your mom birthed you such and such years ago, thats why you exist!

[Retorth]

Why you exist - why you survive? The only explanations you have provided are short-sighted ones. Ultimately you live for poofs/nothing - that's what I'm taking away from this. You live for things that will be gone soon.

Yes that is true. I live for things that do not last forever as I myself will not last forever. At the end, when I die, I cease to exist, as you will cease to exist when you die as well. You are still not convincing me that I should believe in the supernatural. All you are doing is attempting to attack my view on life which is rather pointless.

Does that qualify as a reason? You are good to others for yourself? If you were really good ("the goodness of your own heart") then you would love your enemies also - being a force to end conflict, whether it works or not.

I am good towards other people because I choose to. I want to do good in my life because it makes me feel good and affects people around me positively. If you want to base your deeds solely on god, that is your choice, not mine.

You have no idea how sad atheism sounds, apparently.

For the record, when I said "you have no idea how said that sounds", I was referring to your response below:

I would neglect myself, and I would waste away and die.

It appears to me, however, that all you seem capable of doing is bashing my way of living life. For you to call it "pathetic" really shows a lot. I may not agree with your views, but not once have I bashed it or called you names. I still respect you as a human being.

Anyway, I do not expect you to ever understand, seeing how you are so drowned in religion, but I am perfectly happy with my life. If you cannot respect that and debate in a matured manner, then I see no reason to continue. Appreciate the time you took for the debate thus far though.

[Ace Otana]

You are relying on the ignorant position - why do you think that suffices? It is honestly ignorant.

The supporting evidence for an ultimate cause is our existence. You are happy with ignorance. I know that there must be a cause, and I am seeking to explain what the cause must have been. God is what I have found to be true thus far.

Admitting to not knowing the answer is actually a smart intellectual responce. Our existence is not evidence of a creator. The universe is capable of existing without the need of a creator.
Anyway, that very argument can be used to support the FSM as much as god.

It is not evidence of god. Not knowing the answer isn't ignorance, it's without knowledge. I do not have the knowledge about the reasons of how and why the universe exists. I will not lie and start assuming I know the answer. That would be ignorant. I can only assume. That is honesty.

It's ignorant to claim to know the answer to everything without supporting evidence. You are making a huge claim without evidence to support it. It is you who is ignorant. Now, please give actual evidence of a god and afterlife.

[Eilonnwy]

You haven't answered the question of why you exist - because you failed to explain where the singularity came from. You have to provide an explanation for our universe. You may as well have said that your mom birthed you such and such years ago, thats why you exist!

Why does the singularity have to come from something? You religious people always insist that everything came from God and God is the exception to the rule that everything has a cause. What if the singularity is the exception to the rule? The singularity could have just always existed. What we do know is that time did not exist before the Big Bang. So it's beyond our ability to understand, and that's an acceptable answer. It doesn't mean god did it.

There doesn't have to be an answer to "why". We can just exist. Just because you want there to be some greater reason to why you exist doesn't mean there has to be. The meaning we have in life is the meaning we give it. There doesn't have to be be a greater reason

[Darwinian]

You haven't answered the question of why you exist - because you failed to explain where the singularity came from. You have to provide an explanation for our universe. You may as well have said that your mom birthed you such and such years ago, thats why you exist!

Why does the singularity have to come from something. You religious always insist that everything came from God and God is the exception to the rule that everything has a cause. What if the singularity is the exception to the rule? The singularity could have just always existed. What we do know is that time did not exist. So it's beyond our ability to understand, and that's an acceptable answer. It doesn't mean god did it.

There doesn't have to be an answer to "why". We can just exist. Just because you want there to be some greater reason to why you exist doesn't mean there has to be. The meaning we have in life is the meaning we give it. There doesn't have to be be a greater reason

Your wasting your time trying to get concepts like this over to people like that as they have the imagination of a concussed bee and you'd have more luck trying to explain the colour red to a colour blind shrew!

As I've said before just because you want an explanation for the universe that fits in with your worldview doesn't mean that one exists. The Universe didn't come into existence with humans as it's ultimate goal so what makes you think that the reason it exists in the first place is something that someone like you with such an anthropic view of things is something you can ever understand?

This isn't to say that it can't be understood but before you do but before you do you must throw out all pre conceived notions of humans being the centre of things.

[Violet]

Does that qualify as a reason? You are good to others for yourself? If you were really good ("the goodness of your own heart") then you would love your enemies also - being a force to end conflict, whether it works or not.

Do you always need a reason to help someone, Ecolox?

[Eilonnwy]

Your wasting your time trying to get concepts like this over to people like that as they have the imagination of a concussed bee and you'd have more luck trying to explain the colour red to a colour blind shrew!

Awww, I only just jumped into this debate and you're bringing me down, man! T.T