Christians

[Ace Otana]

Christians admit to not knowing the answer when they claim to have faith (they have a best guess, and they will (ideally) live as if they're sure). You assume that there is no reason for your existence because you don't know, and you assume that there is no god because you cannot see one. You then go on to make up your own reason for living that doesn't make any sense - because no one can live for no reason - you need something to grasp to... If everyone made up individualized reasons for existing then we would have conflict in the world, perhaps worse than we do - but if everyone accepted that God made this world and His will is for us to do unto others as we would be done by, then there could be no conflict.

I can give evidence for God that suffices for you as easily as you can give an explanation as to why you exist that suffices for me.

---

Anyway, if everything has a purpose then whats the purpose of god?

We can't explain the inside of the universe, much less the outside. I think it's reasonable to stop trying to explain things once we have explained the universe.

You assume that there is no reason for your existence because you don't know

I didn't say that. I said I do not know how the universe came into existence.
If you really want to know our purpose then it would be to ensure the existence of our species. This is our evolutionary purpose. Outside of that, there is no purpose. We don't have to like that answer but that is the way it is. We are not important to this planet or the universe. We are just another biological life form on this planet. We have no special purpose. The universe was not made for us.

A rock has no purpose. It is what it is. Alot of stones on beaches are round due to years of erosion by the water. That was not planned but it happened. A stone has no purpose in nature. You don't need to have a purpose in order to exist. A stone can have a purpose for us, we could use it as a weapon or something else but it would still have no purpose in nature.

Not everything has a purpose. We are not in a fairytale where everything has this purpose for something. Our evolutionary purpose is to survive and mate so to insure our species existence. There is no other purpose than that. You might not like that answer but our purpose is no different from any other animal on this planet. We are no more important than any other animal.

you assume that there is no god because you cannot see one.

Wrong again. I need evidence. I don't have to see this god you speak of in order to believe it. I need evidence.

You then go on to make up your own reason for living that doesn't make any sense

Well if your only purpose is to insure our species existence, your gonna make this life something more than just that. You can form your own purpose. It may not comply with our evolutionary purpose but it works. We understand that this life is all your going to get. So make something of it while you can. Simple!

because no one can live for no reason

we are living for a reason. Our original reason is to insure our species existence. Since that is well taken care of we can pursue man made purposes. Read above.

If everyone made up individualized reasons for existing then we would have conflict in the world

Hay! you're right. Those terrorists who flew planes into the 2 towers already had their purposes didn't they? Kill innocent people so to get into heaven and how about the inquisitors who's purpose was to torture heretics to death for their loving god. Yep, you sure got that part right.

but if everyone accepted that God made this world and His will is for us to do unto others as we would be done by, then there could be no conflict.

Why suddenly say god did it without evidence. Isn't that a little arrogant. What makes you so sure god did it? What makes you so sure he exists? Also which religion? Which god?
What EVIDENCE? What makes us more special than anything else, what makes you think we have some special purpose?

[Edwardo Piet]

Give me one example of something that is positive that belief in God can give you, that atheism can't, that isn't merely the placebo effect - and that can actually be backed up by evidence.

Hope and a reason for existing - results in a different lifestyle. Belief in God results from seeing this existence (all the evidence in the world) and answering the question of where it came from...

So how have you explained that you can't get a hope and reason for existing without God? You haven't. You made assertions.

Nor have you given evidence for God. You've just asserted that it's "all around you", no, that's life. So since you've failed to explain my question above, perhaps you could explain why the universe not only needs an explanation, but needs "God" as one, and God on the other hand somehow doesn't need an explanation at all?

EvF

[theVOID]

@ Ecolox

Nobody knows what happened before one million trillion trillion trillionths of a second, not me, not you, nobody.

And we were not created for a purpose! We exist, end of story, if you want to waste your life praying to the childish concept of sky daddy then go ahead, but you will be better off catching up on 2000+ years of superior knowledge that doesn't rely on old myths to explain away the unknown.

There is no reason to assume God exists, there is absolutely no evidence for it! It was the idea of primitive men at the infancy of society, and they were completely wrong! What do you expect to crop out of the brains of the uneducated and superstitious? Quantum fluctuations? General relativity? NO, they couldn't even read or write, so they resorted to the familiar, Human consciousness and attributed EVERYTHING to a similar intelligence in the cosmos. It's a stupid idea, so obviously the product of primitive thought.

[ecolox]

Ace, a rock doesn't need a purpose of its own because it doesn't have to act. Plants and animals can't conceive of a purpose. Humans can, of course, and they should. You know that a purpose is useful. It's not crazy to have a purpose in life - its conducive to productivity/living, to everything good. Some people live for the "American dream", others for this or that or the other - some people flow with the social winds. I think it's irresponsible to not consider your purpose the top consideration in life.

EvF and theVOID, how can anyone deny that this universe needs an explanation? It is a great mystery to everyone here is it not?

What could be the cause of the universe? Something that resembles life or something that resembles rocks? Something rational or something arational? Good or evil or what? Surely atheists speculate on these topics. Some of these comments make it sound like that's off limits for you people. This is the most basic question we can all ask, and much hinges on how we answer (or don't).

We exist, end of story, if you want to waste your life praying to the childish concept of sky daddy then go ahead, but you will be better off catching up on 2000+ years of superior knowledge that doesn't rely on old myths to explain away the unknown.

It is not the end of the story, it's still a mystery, at the very least, despite 2000+ years of knowledge building. My "childish" conceptions are my best efforts at living this life right - because I would hate to waste this existence. Many (all) of you here have said/implied this is your only shot at life, and I take it the same way. I talk to people like you guys to work on my own purpose (top priority) - tweek it - and to challenge others to do the same. It's not a waste of time, it's foundational.

[Violet]

It is a mystery... but sir detective: where is the evidence for your accusation?

[Retorth]

EvF and theVOID, how can anyone deny that this universe needs an explanation? It is a great mystery to everyone here is it not?

A great mystery it is, and explanations all mankind would love, but if you aren't going to find it in current science as we know it, you sure as hell won't find what you're looking for in religion. 'Nuff said.

[theVOID]

Ace, a rock doesn't need a purpose of its own because it doesn't have to act. Plants and animals can't conceive of a purpose. Humans can, of course, and they should. You know that a purpose is useful. It's not crazy to have a purpose in life - its conducive to productivity/living, to everything good. Some people live for the "American dream", others for this or that or the other - some people flow with the social winds. I think it's irresponsible to not consider your purpose the top consideration in life.

EvF and theVOID, how can anyone deny that this universe needs an explanation? It is a great mystery to everyone here is it not?

I never said that, i'm a big fan of science for the reason that it IS getting us answers and moving us forward as a species as opposed to your religion that is doing fuck all.

What could be the cause of the universe? Something that resembles life or something that resembles rocks? Something rational or something arational? Good or evil or what? Surely atheists speculate on these topics. Some of these comments make it sound like that's off limits for you people. This is the most basic question we can all ask, and much hinges on how we answer (or don't).

Of course we speculate on these topics, the real thoughts about these topics are the ones that make people realize that your stupid god concept doesn't explain anything. I love cosmology, astrophysics, quantum mechanics, evolutionary biology, abiogenisis and the like, these are the topics that give us REAL and MEANINGFUL answers about the universe, life and origins in general, not the thoughts of primitive men.

We have a very good idea how life on this planet originated and it wasn't through sky daddy saying 'ta-da', we also have a very good idea of the history of the universe and that also does not require sky daddy, and it's not surprising considering his origins in the mind of primitive men.

Getting an understanding of the origin of life and the universe is like putting together a jigsaw puzzle, each scientist in these fields is out there every day picking up the pieces one at a time and making absolutely sure they all fit, there are still a lot of pieces missing for now but we have millions more pieces than the ancient religious originators and as such we are able to see a far more accurate picture of the universe that their limited intellects ever could.

Face it ecolox, Religion can offer us nothing else in the way of piecing together the puzzle because all you ever do is sit around contemplating ancient texts written by (and i'll say it again to make it clear) PRIMITIVE MEN rather than actively trying to piece together the puzzle like all the scientists out there are doing every day.

We exist, end of story, if you want to waste your life praying to the childish concept of sky daddy then go ahead, but you will be better off catching up on 2000+ years of superior knowledge that doesn't rely on old myths to explain away the unknown.

It is not the end of the story, it's still a mystery, at the very least, despite 2000+ years of knowledge building. My "childish" conceptions are my best efforts at living this life right - because I would hate to waste this existence. Many (all) of you here have said/implied this is your only shot at life, and I take it the same way. I talk to people like you guys to work on my own purpose (top priority) - tweek it - and to challenge others to do the same. It's not a waste of time, it's foundational.

If you need the fear of god to make you live this life right your mentally unstable, though i doubt you do need him to live a good life, it's just your lifelong brainwashing coming into effect forcing you to attribute everything good to your sky daddy.

How can you claim to take the finite life approach when part of your belief is an infinite life of kissing sky daddy's ass?

And besides, what purpose do you have in this life as a Christian? To be obedient, to serve, to praise. It can't be about doing good or living well because in your world view Good and evil are only what God says they are, or more correctly, what you have been told to believe god said to some primitive men in the bronze age middle east who, after generations of hearsay, had their interactions with god recorded in a book that you, thousands of years later, still believe is true.

And even after death if you are in heaven, what is your purpose then? Obedience, servitude, praise, worship... Can't you see, your entire faith is about control, about following orders, blind worship and obedience. Christianity is a cult that, like any other cult, pries upon the uncertainty inherent in humanity and exploits it, threatens you with an inconceivable amount of suffering should you even think negatively about God without begging for forgiveness afterwards. It is all designed to get you to follow the rules!

Stop being so gullible!

[Ace Otana]

Ace, a rock doesn't need a purpose of its own because it doesn't have to act. Plants and animals can't conceive of a purpose. Humans can, of course, and they should. You know that a purpose is useful. It's not crazy to have a purpose in life - its conducive to productivity/living, to everything good. Some people live for the "American dream", others for this or that or the other - some people flow with the social winds. I think it's irresponsible to not consider your purpose the top consideration in life.

EvF and theVOID, how can anyone deny that this universe needs an explanation? It is a great mystery to everyone here is it not?

What could be the cause of the universe? Something that resembles life or something that resembles rocks? Something rational or something arational? Good or evil or what? Surely atheists speculate on these topics. Some of these comments make it sound like that's off limits for you people. This is the most basic question we can all ask, and much hinges on how we answer (or don't).

We exist, end of story, if you want to waste your life praying to the childish concept of sky daddy then go ahead, but you will be better off catching up on 2000+ years of superior knowledge that doesn't rely on old myths to explain away the unknown.

It is not the end of the story, it's still a mystery, at the very least, despite 2000+ years of knowledge building. My "childish" conceptions are my best efforts at living this life right - because I would hate to waste this existence. Many (all) of you here have said/implied this is your only shot at life, and I take it the same way. I talk to people like you guys to work on my own purpose (top priority) - tweek it - and to challenge others to do the same. It's not a waste of time, it's foundational.

a rock doesn't need a purpose of its own because it doesn't have to act. Plants and animals can't conceive of a purpose.

It doesn't have to act in order to have a purpose. Outside of evolution, we have no purpose. We can conceive of a purpose but that means fuck all for nature. Outside of evolutionary purposes, we have no purpose.

Some people live for the "American dream", others for this or that or the other

That's called having a man-made purpose.

how can anyone deny that this universe needs an explanation? It is a great mystery to everyone here is it not?

No one here denies it. No one denies the need for an explanation for the universe. It is a great mystery but going by religious beliefs will not answer any questions.
Scientific observation will do me just fine.

What could be the cause of the universe?

We do not know. Nobody knows.

Good or evil or what?

Good and evil are man made concepts.

This is the most basic question we can all ask, and much hinges on how we answer

Indeed. Many of us have realised religion doesn't get us anywhere but science does.

despite 2000+ years of knowledge building

2000+ years of superstition building more like.

[downbeatplumb]

Religion is the end of the search for knowledge.
For many years the answer to any question about the nature of reality was 'God made it that way' and that was the end of it.
When people thought like that the world stagnated.
In order to progress, you need the constant questioning and testing of the scientific approach.

Science does not know all the answers probably will never know ALL the answers.
But long may the search continue.

Why are we here?
Millions of years of random events coupled with natural selection.

This knowledge does not diminish my life in any way and the knowledge that this life is all there is, makes it all the more precious.

[Ace Otana]

We can't explain the inside of the universe, much less the outside. I think it's reasonable to stop trying to explain things once we have explained the universe.

And the dodge award goes to!

Good dodge. I'm still going to ask the question. If everything has a purpose then whats the purpose of god?

I think it's reasonable to stop trying to explain things once we have explained the universe.

We can explain how to split atoms, how to convert energy on a gigantic scale, to alter DNA in animals and even the formation of not just our planet but the solar system and galaxies. It's never reasonable to stop trying to explain things. It's part of the learning process. First question then answer with either assumptions or scientific observation. (One method is somewhat better than the other) Everything will be questioned, even your god.