So...guess I'm the new guy

[Vincenzo Vinny G.]

No. It does not even "explain a lot of the universe". There is no "explanation of the universe". There are multiple explanations, each which come with their own sets of metaphysical assumptions that are for the most part unverifiable. You don't learn this in your high school science classes, or even in college science classes. They assume that science is just true, and atoms really look like what the bohr model portrays.

But there is other stuff. Foundational stuff. This is stuff you will only learn about in graduate or postgraduate level philosophy courses. And once you fully realize that there is really very little solid foundation for our scientific observations to make sense, your mind will be blown when you realize the impact this has on your ontological foundations.

If you want to have a head start go look up metaphysics and start reading some intro level stuff. Stuff you can understand without much background.

You will realize that everything science "knows" rests on some very interesting underlying metaphysical assumptions that are not as dependable or proven as you think.

And you NEED to have an underlying theory that serves as a foundation to how you incorporate science into your worldview. You will be surprised that philosophers like Plantinga and Popper have made science more friendly to theists than to atheists, and unless you thoroughly understand arguments like Plantinga's EAAN, you will never truly be able to develop an underlying philosophical foundation that can beat atheists up.

All you will be left with is insulting Christians. But that's for the small fry.

Oh no no no, you don't get to walk away with that.
What things are you referring to that science makes metaphysical assumptions on?
Elaborate, explain.

Also, I'd like to point out I never made any statement claiming science explains alot of the universe. I merely made the observation that science has been solely responsible for every major technological breakthrough and discovery humanity has ever made using reproducible methods that work time after time and will likely continue to play this unique and important role.
Metaphysics "explains" very little. Its all unbacked philosophy and theory. It can be entertaining, even interesting but for now there is nothing metaphysics can be used for except creating arguments that require no evidence. It produces no results.
We haven't even seen alot of the universe let alone explained it.

Explain how science has been solely responsible for every major technological breakthrough, as opposed to saying, say, "humans have been solely responsible for every major technological breakthrough".

And explain to me why technological breakthroughs are the most important measure of human progress. As opposed to, say, moral advances, intellectual advances, or even religious advances.

[Cyberman]

If you want to unsplit that hair, why not compromise and ask "humans applying science have been solely responsible for every major technological breakthrough"?

[Reforged]

Oh no no no, you don't get to walk away with that.
What things are you referring to that science makes metaphysical assumptions on?
Elaborate, explain.

Also, I'd like to point out I never made any statement claiming science explains alot of the universe. I merely made the observation that science has been solely responsible for every major technological breakthrough and discovery humanity has ever made using reproducible methods that work time after time and will likely continue to play this unique and important role.
Metaphysics "explains" very little. Its all unbacked philosophy and theory. It can be entertaining, even interesting but for now there is nothing metaphysics can be used for except creating arguments that require no evidence. It produces no results.
We haven't even seen alot of the universe let alone explained it.

Explain how science has been solely responsible for every major technological breakthrough, as opposed to saying, say, "humans have been solely responsible for every major technological breakthrough".

And explain to me why technological breakthroughs are the most important measure of human progress. As opposed to, say, moral advances, intellectual advances, or even religious advances.

sci·ence/ˈsīəns/
Noun:
The intellectual and practical activity encompassing the systematic study of the structure and behavior of the physical and natural...
A particular area of this: "veterinary science".

Scientific advances are intellectual advances. Anything else you'd like me to google for you?

Oh and why are technological breakthroughs the most important measure of human progress?
Is that seriously what you're asking me using your keyboard to type an electronic message on your personal computer to be posted on the internet while in the confines of a central heated house with electrical lights, telephones that can be used to talk to people thousands upon thousands of miles away, a fridge that helps freshly store food you've bought with money from your bank account powered by an economic system that would otherwise be impossible if not for the many means of transportation, communication and storage of information made widely available to almost every single individual who isn't living in a third world country?

Well? Is that what you're asking me?
Morality is a luxury you wouldn't be able to afford if your survival wasn't so completely assured by the technology that surrounds you.
The very fact you are even having this conversation is thanks to scientific discovery.

As for "religious advances", don't make me laugh. Like what? The admission that stoning people isn't very nice? I think you'll find religion wasn't required for that particular gem of wisdom. Infact I'd go so far as to say it was dragged kicking and screaming toward it. Large parts of the world are still struggling with that concept thanks to religious dogma.
What "advances" are these?

[Vincenzo Vinny G.]

Explain how science has been solely responsible for every major technological breakthrough, as opposed to saying, say, "humans have been solely responsible for every major technological breakthrough".

And explain to me why technological breakthroughs are the most important measure of human progress. As opposed to, say, moral advances, intellectual advances, or even religious advances.

sci·ence/ˈsīəns/
Noun:
The intellectual and practical activity encompassing the systematic study of the structure and behavior of the physical and natural...
A particular area of this: "veterinary science".

Scientific advances are intellectual advances. Anything else you'd like me to google for you?

Oh and why are technological breakthroughs the most important measure of human progress?
Is that seriously what you're asking me using your keyboard to type an electronic message on your personal computer to be posted on the internet while in the confines of a central heated house with electrical lights, telephones that can be used to talk to people thousands upon thousands of miles away, a fridge that helps freshly store food you've bought with money from your bank account powered by an economic system that would otherwise be impossible if not for the many means of transportation, communication and storage of information made widely available to almost every single individual who isn't living in a third world country?

Well? Is that what you're asking me?
Morality is a luxury you wouldn't be able to afford if your survival wasn't so completely assured by the technology that surrounds you.
The very fact you are even having this conversation is thanks to scientific discovery.

As for "religious advances", don't make me laugh. Like what? The admission that stoning people isn't very nice? I think you'll find religion wasn't required for that particular gem of wisdom. Infact I'd go so far as to say it was dragged kicking and screaming toward it. Large parts of the world are still struggling with that concept thanks to religious dogma.
What "advances" are these?

Wow. Scientific advances are intellectual advances, where science is restricted to the physical and natural? Really broseph? So, non-scientific advances are not intellectual advances?

You're an idiot who doesn't know how to define his own terms. There are intellectual advances that are outside of the hard sciences. Ie, outside of "the physical and the natural". Is mathematics a science? Is it about the physical and natural world?

Scientific advances are not the same as intellectual advances. Some scientific advances are also intellectual, but some scientific advances are not. Some intellectual advances are not scientific ones.

You're out of your depth here. Go play with legos.

[Reforged]

sci·ence/ˈsīəns/
Noun:
The intellectual and practical activity encompassing the systematic study of the structure and behavior of the physical and natural...
A particular area of this: "veterinary science".

Scientific advances are intellectual advances. Anything else you'd like me to google for you?

Oh and why are technological breakthroughs the most important measure of human progress?
Is that seriously what you're asking me using your keyboard to type an electronic message on your personal computer to be posted on the internet while in the confines of a central heated house with electrical lights, telephones that can be used to talk to people thousands upon thousands of miles away, a fridge that helps freshly store food you've bought with money from your bank account powered by an economic system that would otherwise be impossible if not for the many means of transportation, communication and storage of information made widely available to almost every single individual who isn't living in a third world country?

Well? Is that what you're asking me?
Morality is a luxury you wouldn't be able to afford if your survival wasn't so completely assured by the technology that surrounds you.
The very fact you are even having this conversation is thanks to scientific discovery.

As for "religious advances", don't make me laugh. Like what? The admission that stoning people isn't very nice? I think you'll find religion wasn't required for that particular gem of wisdom. Infact I'd go so far as to say it was dragged kicking and screaming toward it. Large parts of the world are still struggling with that concept thanks to religious dogma.
What "advances" are these?

Wow. Scientific advances are intellectual advances, where science is restricted to the physical and natural? Really broseph? So, non-scientific advances are not intellectual advances?

You're an idiot who doesn't know how to define his own terms. There are intellectual advances that are outside of the hard sciences. Ie, outside of "the physical and the natural". Is mathematics a science? Is it about the physical and natural world?

Scientific advances are not the same as intellectual advances. Some scientific advances are also intellectual, but some scientific advances are not. Some intellectual advances are not scientific ones.

You're out of your depth here. Go play with legos.

I'm sorry, did I say ALL intellectual advances are scientific advances? No, I said scientific advances are intellectual advances.

On the contrary Vince, you're an idiot who makes unbacked assumptions and acts on them.
Suffice to say you're mistaken and should probably read more than you write as it betrays your astounding stupidity and arrogance if you do it the other way round.
Go read this http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/0007177186/?t...0007177186
It might help, assuming you can grasp any of it.

[Vincenzo Vinny G.]

Wow. Scientific advances are intellectual advances, where science is restricted to the physical and natural? Really broseph? So, non-scientific advances are not intellectual advances?

You're an idiot who doesn't know how to define his own terms. There are intellectual advances that are outside of the hard sciences. Ie, outside of "the physical and the natural". Is mathematics a science? Is it about the physical and natural world?

Scientific advances are not the same as intellectual advances. Some scientific advances are also intellectual, but some scientific advances are not. Some intellectual advances are not scientific ones.

You're out of your depth here. Go play with legos.

I'm sorry, did I say ALL intellectual advances are scientific advances? No, I said scientific advances are intellectual advances.

On the contrary Vince, you're an idiot who makes unbacked assumptions and acts on them.
Suffice to say you're mistaken and should probably read more than you write as it betrays your astounding stupidity and arrogance if you do it the other way round.
Go read this http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/0007177186/?t...0007177186
It might help, assuming you can grasp any of it.

LEARN!!!!!!!!

All intellectual advances are not scientific. Stop arguing. You are wrong.

[Reforged]

I'm sorry, did I say ALL intellectual advances are scientific advances? No, I said scientific advances are intellectual advances.

On the contrary Vince, you're an idiot who makes unbacked assumptions and acts on them.
Suffice to say you're mistaken and should probably read more than you write as it betrays your astounding stupidity and arrogance if you do it the other way round.
Go read this http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/0007177186/?t...0007177186
It might help, assuming you can grasp any of it.

LEARN!!!!!!!!

All intellectual advances are not scientific. Stop arguing. You are wrong.

I never said they were and you need to learn to read. Badly.
Anyone who scrolls back can read what I typed and it is clearly not what you are claiming it was.
If you have trouble understanding even the most basic concept that science can be an intellectual pursuit without it being the only intellectual pursuit then I predict your stay on this site to be remarkably short lived as you will quickly be devoured by the numerous people here who do not suffer fools gladly.
Thanks for playing. :-)

[Vincenzo Vinny G.]

You're an idiot.

There's a whole world of professional and academic resources out there published by the leaders in their field that acknowledge that scientific research is sitting on assumptions. Unproven, unprovable assumptions that are taken on faith and instead of acknowledging it, your desperate, cloying dependence on science as your "God" programs you, like a little puggle who gets excited when mama gets home from her librarian job, to fixate on that and only that.

It's such common sense that even OTHER atheists on OTHER forums are discussing this issue. College textbooks point to the issue. Logical Positivism of Ayer and Carnap's day have been thoroughly shown to be false.

And still you don't wanna let go to your 1950s notions of science and "the world of tomorrow!!!"?

Listen, Hoodie McGee, I'll make it simple for you:

a) Science depends heavily on the truth of mathematical and logical propositions.
b) The scientific method cannot "prove" a single mathematical or logical proposition.
c) Mathematical/logical propositions can be "proven" within their respective fields.
d) However, even the fields of mathematics and logic themselves cannot be assessed by science.
c) Therefore the scientific method must assume the validity of mathematical and logical propositions without formal evidence for their validity.

[LastPoet]

LEARN!!!!!!!!

All intellectual advances are not scientific. Stop arguing. You are wrong.

You are aware that being condescendent makes you look more of a dumbass, instead of someone that actually knows something?

Tell you what, if you are going to tell everyone to stop arguing just because they don't agree with you, why don't you save us all the trouble and go back to those forums you feel recognized?

[Vincenzo Vinny G.]

LEARN!!!!!!!!

All intellectual advances are not scientific. Stop arguing. You are wrong.

You are aware that being condescendent makes you look more of a dumbass, instead of someone that actually knows something?

Tell you what, if you are going to tell everyone to stop arguing just because they don't agree with you, why don't you save us all the trouble and go back to those forums you feel recognized?

I love you too. But I don't tolerate someone with a 2nd grade understanding of epistemology and its relationship to the scientific method to get cocky.