I don't hate God

[Brian37]

I warn against always placating the emotions and insecurities of others. Unless you have been in a captive situation such as school and or workplace, or even worse, live under a nation that oppresses you for dissent, merely being offensive, or having passion for an issue, by itself is not a crime.

There is nothing wrong with being nice, but there is also nothing wrong with bitching either. There is not one human on this planet who hasn't bitched about something, even if only in their mind. You can control your physical actions in reacting to others, as all should. But don't play thought police, even with yourself. You can ultimately only be yourself.

Context is what matters, not avoiding offending people all the time at all costs. It should depend on the situation as a case by case basis. Otherwise if we become a society of "taboos" to avoid conflict or hurt feelings, the problem always becomes "who gets to decide"?

I can't really argue with that, in most cases. However, I have 18 years in customer service experience and I know that people's defenses are very easily broken down, with the right approach. Also, I come from Northern Ireland so I know all about being in oppressive situations. When you have to talk a gunman out of shooting you, when he has been brainwashed into believing that you represent everything that he hates, you learn as you go or become another statistic. In fairness, though, it is my idealistic view of the world which usually lands me looking down the barrel of a gun, so point taken.

I actually have not done it here, as much as I should, but do you know how to box, kick verbal ass, without making people run? You simply say look, there is a difference between you the person, and an individual claim a person may make.

In my history in dealing with most detractors, once you warn them not to take the subject matter personally, not all of the time, but most of the time they do not.

I really am an equal opportunity offender. I have offended a pantheist, who is now an atheist. I have offended a Mayan conspiracy fan. I still to this day piss off an atheist libertarian who falsely thinks I am a nanny state advocate. And I have had a 5 year battle with one Christian on another board who has always hated my needling and blasphemy, but to his credit, stuck it out.

There is no way humanly possible on a planet of 7 billion to only say nice things all the time. That attitude is as utopian in thought as any political party or religion. The best we can do is to let the words fly and agree that we all want the same thing. We all want food, shelter, a means to survive and the right to bitch when we don't like something.

What binds humans together is not our common likes or dislikes, what binds us together is our common condition. And our common condition is that we will never agree on all things all the time.

[Gambit]

I can't really argue with that, in most cases. However, I have 18 years in customer service experience and I know that people's defenses are very easily broken down, with the right approach. Also, I come from Northern Ireland so I know all about being in oppressive situations. When you have to talk a gunman out of shooting you, when he has been brainwashed into believing that you represent everything that he hates, you learn as you go or become another statistic. In fairness, though, it is my idealistic view of the world which usually lands me looking down the barrel of a gun, so point taken.

I actually have not done it here, as much as I should, but do you know how to box, kick verbal ass, without making people run? You simply say look, there is a difference between you the person, and an individual claim a person may make.

In my history in dealing with most detractors, once you warn them not to take the subject matter personally, not all of the time, but most of the time they do not.

I really am an equal opportunity offender. I have offended a pantheist, who is now an atheist. I have offended a Mayan conspiracy fan. I still to this day piss off an atheist libertarian who falsely thinks I am a nanny state advocate. And I have had a 5 year battle with one Christian on another board who has always hated my needling and blasphemy, but to his credit, stuck it out.

There is no way humanly possible on a planet of 7 billion to only say nice things all the time. That attitude is as utopian in thought as any political party or religion. The best we can do is to let the words fly and agree that we all want the same thing. We all want food, shelter, a means to survive and the right to bitch when we don't like something.

What binds humans together is not our common likes or dislikes, what binds us together is our common condition. And our common condition is that we will never agree on all things all the time.

This reminds me of the time when my conspiracy theorist friend showed me the following video; then proceeded to tell me how it was evidence of a NWO conspiracy:





There were two ways I could have taken this.

1. Gently introduce him to The Onion, showing him some of the satirical content, then pointing out The Onion logo in the video.
2. Laugh at him maniacally, leaving him feeling insecure and confused, then point out how much of a dumbass he is.

I went with the latter; simply because I felt I needed to be cruel to be kind. It was kind of a critical thinking, preemptive strike.

[Akincana Krishna dasa]

I'd like to ask a few questions of our resident theists; and they are as follows:

1. Do you believe that Atheists hate God?
2. Do you believe that peoples of other faiths hate God?
3. Who the fuck is promoting this stupid belief; and why haven't they been kicked out of your cosmic circle jerk club?

1. I've seen some that obviously do. Like my sister was born with a debilitating condition and has hardly been able to walk for her entire life. She's had a very difficult life. She told me she can't believe in a God that would do that to her, and that she decided she's an atheist.

One of the big arguments that people give against God is that there is evil in the world. How could a good, all-powerful God allow for that? Without a good answer, I think people intuitively decide God can't exist.

I've also heard the argument that the universe is "stupidly designed." Look up Neil Degrasse Tyson, for example - who I think calls himself agnostic, or doesn't prefer to define his stance on God. It's a similar idea - the universe isn't paradise, in fact, life kinda sucks a lot of the time, and most of the universe isn't inhabitable by human beings, so how could an intelligent God be responsible for that?

I'm sure there are atheists that just don't care, or who are convinced by different ideas. Obviously if you're really convinced there's no God, how could you hate?

So my answer is - sometimes yes, sometimes no. It depends.

2. Belonging to one faith or another is superficial. Submitting to a higher power is natural. We're not the highest power in the universe, we don't make most of the rules about how the universe works. There are all kinds of laws that govern how life works.

So obviously in human history God has been defined, understood, worshiped in a variety of ways. Often religious people get fanatical and argue "my religion is the only truth, everyone else is a jerk." Still, from a broader perspective, we can appreciate the nearly universal instinct to respect a higher power.

I think you can say that even naturalism or scientism - which is generally atheistic - still respects the power of the laws of nature, and works diligently to understand them. So from one point of view, such thinkers can be said to respect God in a different way.

So I would definitely never automatically say that anyone who isn't in my church, or even anyone who doesn't understand reality the way I do, hates God.

3. Fanaticism and small-mindedness exists all over the place. I've met fanatical atheists. So, it's really a universal phenomenon.

[Kayenneh]

Please refrain from necroposting, e.g. post in threads that are 30 days old or more. The forum rules and guidelines have been updated, you can conveniently find them in the upper right-hand corner. Please re-acquaint yourself with them.

[KichigaiNeko]

Thought we had done this to the death!

[Brian37]

I can only repeat what I have alread said. I do hate god, not as a real entity, but as merely an uttered claim. I would also hate it if it were real (not that it is) based upon the selective nature of morality based on the claimed attributes of claimed god.

But the reality is in real life that I cannot hate something that does not exist. I cant hate pink unicorns, but I would hate it if people passed it off in the same numbers as major religions. I cant hate the people who do claim it, merely for claiming it. But just the core idea of any type of non human non material disembodied brain is just flat out an aburd claim no matter how you try to dress the claim up with details just as rediculous as the core claim itself.

[Darkstar]

1. I've seen some that obviously do. Like my sister was born with a debilitating condition and has hardly been able to walk for her entire life. She's had a very difficult life. She told me she can't believe in a God that would do that to her, and that she decided she's an atheist.

One of the big arguments that people give against God is that there is evil in the world. How could a good, all-powerful God allow for that? Without a good answer, I think people intuitively decide God can't exist.

I've also heard the argument that the universe is "stupidly designed." Look up Neil Degrasse Tyson, for example - who I think calls himself agnostic, or doesn't prefer to define his stance on God. It's a similar idea - the universe isn't paradise, in fact, life kinda sucks a lot of the time, and most of the universe isn't inhabitable by human beings, so how could an intelligent God be responsible for that?

I'm sure there are atheists that just don't care, or who are convinced by different ideas. Obviously if you're really convinced there's no God, how could you hate?

So my answer is - sometimes yes, sometimes no. It depends.

This isn't hating god; it's concluding that either he doesn't exists, or he hates you.

2. Belonging to one faith or another is superficial. Submitting to a higher power is natural. We're not the highest power in the universe, we don't make most of the rules about how the universe works. There are all kinds of laws that govern how life works.

So obviously in human history God has been defined, understood, worshiped in a variety of ways. Often religious people get fanatical and argue "my religion is the only truth, everyone else is a jerk." Still, from a broader perspective, we can appreciate the nearly universal instinct to respect a higher power.

Yeah, it's an instinct, not a valid conclusion. Only animals let their instincts override their reasoning.

I think you can say that even naturalism or scientism - which is generally atheistic - still respects the power of the laws of nature, and works diligently to understand them. So from one point of view, such thinkers can be said to respect God in a different way.

If you define god not as a personal power, but as a metaphor for the universe, then yes.

So I would definitely never automatically say that anyone who isn't in my church, or even anyone who doesn't understand reality the way I do, hates God.

3. Fanaticism and small-mindedness exists all over the place. I've met fanatical atheists. So, it's really a universal phenomenon.

That's nice, but a lot of other people are very confident that if you don't agree with their personal misundersatanding of reality, you are going to burn. To say that no one can know opens up a fatal question that I thought all non-deist theists would avoid: by your logic at most one religion can be right, yet they all claim absolute proof that they are correct about everything, not just the existence of god. If most of them are wrong or lying, then what are the odds that the last one isn't too? And what are the odds that using their same, evidently failed, reasoning to 'discover god' would actually work?

P.S. I don't know if it's important to rekill the thread after it has been necroposted in recently, but to be safe, I won't post in this one again.

[Kayenneh]

P.S. I don't know if it's important to rekill the thread after it has been necroposted in recently, but to be safe, I won't post in this one again.

Meh, if the conversation starts flowing again, why the hell not (the other mods and admins might disagree with me). I just feel that it's my obligation to point out that rather than necroposting, one can always make a new thread. After that my job is done

[Cyberman]

The big question here, which is positively screaming for an answer, is why is Death wearing the Dean's leather jacket four posts up?

[Ryantology]

I suppose I would hate god if I believe it existed.

Precisely.

Since he doesn't, I merely hate the cults which have sprung up in his name. If not necessarily the cultists.