Ask, Seek, Knock

[Mystic]

We (meaning all those after Christ) have been given this life to choose whether or not we want to spend eternity with God.

The people before Christ God chose them. He simply did not care what they wanted to believe.

It seems then rather the coming of Christ is a curse rather than a favor/grace upon humanity. And why is God being inconsistent?

[Cyberman]

It's funny how each side sees each other as arrogant.

It's much easier when one side happens to be right. Though you might have a point; the truth probably lies somewhere inbetween.

I don't actually have a "side", though.

[Mystic]

It's funny how each side sees each other as arrogant.

It's much easier when one side happens to be right. Though you might have a point; the truth probably lies somewhere inbetween.

I don't actually have a "side", though.

Most humans have some pride, but not too much, but I don't even know if there should be a limit (too much/arrogancy). This goes for both Christians and Atheists.

Atheists feel pride over the fact they believe they are taking the intellectually superior position, and the honest position. And they should take pride.

Christians although don't want to state it, take pride, because they believe they did the right decision of accepting God's grace.

Muslims take pride, because they believe they taken upon the path that earns them God's Pleasure.

At the end, whether the pride is upon false reasons or true reasons, it's going to be there. I think all three should have pride, but to take it with grain of salt that they can be wrong.

[Anomalocaris]

It's funny how each side sees each other as arrogant.

It's much easier when one side happens to be right. Though you might have a point; the truth probably lies somewhere inbetween.

I don't actually have a "side", though.

The difference between arrogance and non-arrogance is the difference between seeking and asserting truth.

A person who seeks facts and finds that others who can't admit to being wrong is in fact wrong is not arrogant. A person who asserts the truth because otherwise he would be seen to be wrong is arrogant.

The fact that the two approaches might seem hard to tell apart by shallow idiots who would rather be told than to verify doesn't mean christainity therefore can even theoretically be argued for from a position other than of arrogance. Christianity is always arrogant because it haas nothing that is not arrogant or could be alternatively justified on basis other than pure arrogance.

The other side might be arrogant as well as a point of fact. But their position is at least theoretically capable of being argued thoroughly and soundly from facts and not arrogance.

This is the difference.

[genkaus]

Well from his perspective, he is doing us a favor. Anyways, what's the line between healthy pride and arrogance? Arrogance is just a word for too much pride, but is there even a level of too much pride (hence is a loaded word implying there is a limit on how much pride we should have), and if there is, what exactly is that limit or ball park understanding of that limit?

Arrogance is pride without a good reason behind it.

[Tino]

How much do you typically donate?

less than 1/2 of what I should.

What is the "should" level?

[Drich]

It doesn't matter if you do it right. God can still arbitrarily decide you have to pray more, or decide he doesn't want to answer it.

what makes you an expert on the Mind of God?

Even if you do it 'right' your whole life, prayers may never be answered because god wants you to wait longer or doesn't feel like answering them, and you would never know.

Have you ever even made the effort to 'pray correctly?' Then how can you say your prayers will never be answered?

Yours. Air conditioning and supermarkets are irrelated to human nature.

Lol, You do not understand Human nature. Super markets and A/C are pacefiers. If you take these things away then you have the makings of an angery mob. This is the real reason for goverment give away programs. to keep people docile, to control them with the 'luxury' of a pacifier like

People fought in the past for survival. Now that people don't have to fight, they don't want to nearly as much.

Says the guy a few years (if that) out of his mom's house. Discontentment or the need to accumilate the things we do not need, is what drives the western way of life. it is the reason we need SUPER Markets, a new car model every year, Mega box electronic stores, the reason for the Iphone 5, the reason communisim does not work in the face of excess. At best you have confused yourself with an ideology that is forgotten the further you get from campus life, or a life at home.

If given the choice between peace and an unnecessary war, all but the most bloodthirsty would choose peace.

That is why all wars are tied to the soceities ever changing morality. So that the masses feel Obligated to move against another country.

The bible condones slavery...

So? The question wasn't does God condone slavery. I asked who actually physically owned slaves?

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How much do you typically donate?

less than 1/2 of what I should.

What is the "should" level?

Everything that I am.

[Ryantology]

So? The question wasn't does God condone slavery. I asked who actually physically owned slaves?

People who did so, at least to some extent, because God gave them the green light.

I'm surprised you don't blame the slaves.

[Darkstar]

It doesn't matter if you do it right. God can still arbitrarily decide you have to pray more, or decide he doesn't want to answer it.

what makes you an expert on the Mind of God?

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1 John 5:14-15 This is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us. 15 And if we know that he hears us—whatever we ask—we know that we have what we asked of him.

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Luke 11:5-10 Then Jesus said to them, “Suppose you have a friend, and you go to him at midnight and say, ‘Friend, lend me three loaves of bread; 6 a friend of mine on a journey has come to me, and I have no food to offer him.’ 7 And suppose the one inside answers, ‘Don’t bother me. The door is already locked, and my children and I are in bed. I can’t get up and give you anything.’ 8 I tell you, even though he will not get up and give you the bread because of friendship, yet because of your shameless audacity he will surely get up and give you as much as you need.

9 “So I say to you: Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. 10 For everyone who asks receives; the one who seeks finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened.

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The first shows that god has to agree with your prayer, the second shows that you may have to ask numerous times before the prayer is answered. The problem arises when, after asking many times, you are unsure if you simply need to ask more, or if god does not intend to answer you at all.

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Even if you do it 'right' your whole life, prayers may never be answered because god wants you to wait longer or doesn't feel like answering them, and you would never know.

Have you ever even made the effort to 'pray correctly?' Then how can you say your prayers will never be answered?

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See above. You could never know if the prayer was answered, or if it happened by chance because there is no defined limit on the number of times you must pray. Pray to win the lottery (so you can donate it to charity) for 70 years, and then win. Answered prayer?

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Yours. Air conditioning and supermarkets are irrelated to human nature.

Lol, You do not understand Human nature. Super markets and A/C are pacefiers. If you take these things away then you have the makings of an angery mob. This is the real reason for goverment give away programs. to keep people docile, to control them with the 'luxury' of a pacifier like

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It is true that hot weather tends to make people more irritable, but this is not part of human nature. People don't go to war jsut because they want to kill somebody.

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People fought in the past for survival. Now that people don't have to fight, they don't want to nearly as much.

Says the guy a few years (if that) out of his mom's house. Discontentment or the need to accumilate the things we do not need, is what drives the western way of life. it is the reason we need SUPER Markets, a new car model every year, Mega box electronic stores, the reason for the Iphone 5, the reason communisim does not work in the face of excess. At best you have confused yourself with an ideology that is forgotten the further you get from campus life, or a life at home

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Firstly, I'm not one of those people who needs the iphone# or the new car, or even cares, frankly. Either way, I don't see how a consumerist society=violent urges.

If given the choice between peace and an unnecessary war, all but the most bloodthirsty would choose peace.

That is why all wars are tied to the soceities ever changing morality. So that the masses feel Obligated to move against another country.

I'm not 100% sure what you meant, but I think I understand. My point is that people don't start wars for the sake of war; even if war is started out of greed, this is different than raw bloodlust.

The bible condones slavery...

So? The question wasn't does God condone slavery. I asked who actually physically owned slaves?
[/quote]

People did, and god said it was okay. But how does this answer whether christians are god's slaves?

[System of Solace]

HE DID! What do you think sending His Son to Die on a Cross was all about?

You sound like you're making fun of Christianity.