Neo-Nazis Fly Under Radar

[IATIA]

How can 'free speech' have limits, and still be 'free'? It would be, by definition, 'limited speech', no?

Limited speech is not free speech.. Someone has to draw a line then that line gets fuzzy and starts drifting in favor of the powers that be.

So it's not that there is less support for these groups, it's that there are laws against them? Makes the results much less impressive to be honest.

Agreed.

And isn't the banning of undemocratic movements itself an undemocratic thing to do?

... it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government ...

[thesummerqueen]

I'm just not understanding why people who want a different sort of government need to be disparaged on. I understand the Revolution was more complex than that, but what makes us the same as anarchists or neo-nazis for wanting a representational government of our own - or people revolting against a theocracy?

Maybe I haven't had enough coffee, but I'm not understanding the bolded part of your sentence.

[Autumnlicious]

I was getting back at your snarky comment, which implied that because some dipshits a century ago overthrew their colonial masters actually matters to what we do now, as if it is some carried over burden or state of existence.

It's like saying because your ancestors were enslaved, you deserve to be apologized to by your enslavers descendants, because what they did serves as a model for what they do now.

Sins of the father and all the crap.

Overthrowing a government must happen for deeper reasons other than "Hurr durr Amurica started dat way! Hurrr"

Lazy, lazy justification.

[thesummerqueen]

1) It wasn't snarky. It was an honest question born out of confusion.

2) Please have the goddamn grace to give me more credit than that. I was merely trying to clarify my misunderstanding of your point.

I'll remove myself from a conversation I clearly don't have the intelligence to follow.

[Something completely different]

there`s another german here?! and he knows law, bad german comedy and is hardly ever online.

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I'm just not understanding why people who want a different sort of government need to be disparaged on. I understand the Revolution was more complex than that, but what makes us the same as anarchists or neo-nazis for wanting a representational government of our own - or people revolting against a theocracy?

Maybe I haven't had enough coffee, but I'm not understanding the bolded part of your sentence.

why give rights to someone who wouldn`t give those rights to you?

[thesummerqueen]

Yes, there is another German, and he is a fantastic individual.

Also, I have never ONCE declared that something was "right" because the Founding Fathers did it. If I venerate any of those men, it's because as an individual, one or the other showed a certain consistency of intelligent thought and ideal. I'm quite aware they weren't perfect, nor have I ever treated them as such, and I don't espouse ideas of theirs I don't agree with or don't feel stand by their own merits as ideas.

Nor would I ever say that something is a good idea solely because America did it.

Coming back here was clearly a bad idea if people who have known me for that long have decided I'd espouse such shite.

And you give rights to people who wouldn't give it to you because living in a civilized society means you treat others with civility - not the same bigotry with which they would treat you.

I misunderstood, or didn't follow through, with the thought Moros was expressing, but I guess that means I'm the derpina and don't deserve to ask for clarification.

[Autumnlicious]

I misunderstood, or didn't follow through, with the thought Moros was expressing, but I guess that means I'm the derpina and don't deserve to ask for clarification.

Sorry Summer. I've had a rather angry month, and it doesn't seem to be ending. I jumped the gun and went straight for aggression. I shouldn't have done that.

[Something completely different]

i`m not, in any kind of way, trying to not give a clarification, and thereby pushing you out of this dialog because of arrogant reasons.

what i meant by this question was; that it doesn`t seem right\justifiable\reasonable to me, to give people rights, thereby meaning liberties, wich those people, if they had power would take away from you.
I think that in a Republic, the goverment has a monopoly power on goverment, law and executive action.
We had cases in this country in wich for example muslim comunities refused to cooperate with the authorities after a member of it`s comunitie was beaten up, and they would rather resolve this through a illegal "sharia" court.
I do not think that organisations, wich officialy undermine the Republic they live in should imediatly be forbidden.
What I do believe and what is the law in my country is; when a organisation officialy wants to abolish the republic, replace it with a tyranic system and claims violence to be a justifiable way of doing this, it should be banned.
Thereby the "violence" part doesnt nececerily have to be a public statement, it is enought if that organisation talks violence inofficialy to have it banned.
My nation lived through 2 dictatorships in the past 60 years, we (probably out of these historic reasons) have developed a set of cultural political values wich is set on protecting the democracy eaven if it means to abolish undemocratic organisations.
It is true that this will drive a undemocratic organisation into a potentaly more violent underground. But most democracys are overthrown not by a militant underground organisation, but by totalitarion organisation wich pose as democratic and get elected.

[cratehorus]

Isn't it weird how all the libertarians in this thread are ALL springing to defend nazis? It's almost like they've been trained to respond to nazi protests with arguments of free speech......and isn't amazing how left-wingers are actaully giving them great arguments AGAINST free speech, sure hope the libertarians don't use these arguments against us, to let's say ban free speech of homosexuals, or better yet get rid of free speech for communists after all they're just as bad, right?

[thesummerqueen]

I have no idea what you're talking about.

I'm a "left winger" I suppose, but I support free-speech - even that of Nazis. And while it pains me to say it thanks to the "Tea Party", being Libertarian doesn't mean you're against homosexuals.