God is not Great

[Tiberius]

Solipsism is, at best, irrational and morally obtuse.

Well I'm a solipsist. I don't find it irrational or morally obtuse. It seems very obvious to me that since we experience everything through our own minds, it is impossible to know whether other minds actually exist. I don't act like I'm the only being in existence; on the contrary, I think it's probably likely that other minds do exist. However, I must also recognize that I have no method of determining the absolute truth of the matter.

In a 5th Commandment kind of way.

My beef with the 5th commandment is that there are some parents who should not be honoured. I'm talking about parents who abuse their children or disown them. Why do they deserve honour? Parents have to earn their children's honour as anyone else does.

Actually, you could say that man's position was based on Eugenics - EVIL SCIENCE, EVIL!!!

What's evil about eugenics?

Is North Korea really a shining example of "tolerant" atheists? Is China?

I agree with others in the thread. Although North Korea's official "religion" is atheism, it is clear to even the most casual observer that they worship the Kim dynasty as higher powers.

Kim Il-sung is the "Eternal President of the Republic"
Kim Jong-il is the "Eternal General Secretary of the Workers' Party of Korea and Eternal Chairman of the National Defence Commission"

"The cult of personality of Kim Jong-il and his father remained important ideological underpinnings of the regime, at times seeming to resemble tenets of a state religion."

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_..._framework

[Shell B]

I'm sure if you go to North Korea and ask, they will emphatically tell you that they don't believe their leader is a deity.

They will not. Believe me. Dictatorships are kind of an area of interest of mine. As Tiberius said, the rulers of the Kim dynasty are worshiped as deities. Before meals, work, sleep, etc., they worship statues of their leaders. It is illegal to take photographs of representations of the current leader. It is blasphemous. I'm sorry, but you are being spoonfed rubbish if you think the government of North Korea is not run in this manner.

---

To be clear, they just don't believe in your god, Daniel. By the way, my most emphatic thanks for the return of your shirt.

[Aractus]

I tell you what Shell, when you actually manage to talk to a NK civilian then I'll believe you. They're a socialist state, and an atheist state.

[The Grand Nudger]

The Kim pantheon, not unlike your own, is a jealous one. It has ordered, much like your own, that no gods be before it.

[Whateverist]

The Kim pantheon, not unlike your own, is a jealous one. It has ordered, much like your own, that no gods be before it.

Was that addressed to ShellB or to Aractus? Is the alternative pantheon you speak of headed by Tiberius or by Jehovah?

[Minimalist]

I'm sure if you go to North Korea and ask, they will emphatically tell you that they don't believe their leader is a deity.

What they "believe" is almost irrelevant. They are told what to say and, frankly, throughout most of history that has been the aim of most religions.
Conformity.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-16336991

Every night, North Korea's news bulletin begins with a song about the mythical qualities of the country's leader Kim Jong-il and the mountain where he is said to have been born.

North Koreans are used to the hyperbole of their state media, with a constant stream of stories about Kim Jong-il's economic guidance and benevolent care.

And since the death of the Dear Leader on 17 December, the media have focused their attention on a series of strange, natural phenomena being reported across the country - a giant lake of ice cracking in half, a red glow covering the mountain where their leader was born and, most recently, magpies gathering by the dozens in a single tree, in grief, according to one party official.

Kim Saves and, since he actually existed, he was probably a lot better at it than jesus.

[KichigaiNeko]

craig to our little neck of the web. Enjoy your stay







As for the theists....

JUST DON'T FUCK WITH MY WA
Wakarimasuka?" 分かりますか？

[Tiberius]

I tell you what Shell, when you actually manage to talk to a NK civilian then I'll believe you. They're a socialist state, and an atheist state.

Why does she have the burden of proof here? You made the claim, not us. You've presented your evidence (that they call themselves an atheist country), and we've presented ours (that the personality cult of the Kim dynasty clearly resembles a religion). We don't need to talk to a NK civilian in order to come to an educated conclusion here. I think it's borderline intellectually dishonest to suggest that Shell needs to talk to an NK civilian in order for you to believe her. You know full well that task is almost impossible, given the restrictive access NK has to outsiders, and the fact that anyone who gains access to the country will have guards with them constantly.

[Dee Dee Ramone]

Beside the obvious similarities between the cult of the eternal leader & worshipping non-existing entities, I must say that I feel pity for those people in North-Korea.

Zero Freedom: "How could hell be any worse?"

[CapnAwesome]

I tell you what Shell, when you actually manage to talk to a NK civilian then I'll believe you. They're a socialist state, and an atheist state.

Well a lot of dictatorships outside of the Islamic world claim to be Atheist or ban religion because it conflicts with state power or the power of the leader. It's not really the same as what we are talking about though, because you don't really know what people in North Korea believe. Imagine that I was forced to call myself a Christian. Does that make me one?