Childhood indoctrination

[The Grand Nudger]

Here's why I don't believe a quick, clean death is proper treatment of animals: If the grim reaper came to you and told you

Doesn't sound so quick or clean to me.

your time had come, your time for a quick, clean, "humane" death, wouldn't you argue and beg? Wouldn't you cry and squeal? Wouldn't you piss yourself and run?

I doubt that running from death incarnate would cross my mind - to be completely honest. I'd be transfixed.

I would, and I suspect foul play if anyone denies they would try anything, ANYTHING to just stay alive.

Foul play? Like, I'd been held down or something? In the situation you described I doubt that I would be capable of thinking clearly. You reckon you would have the presence of mind to put one foot in front of the other - I simply doubt that I would.

"Humane" doesn't enter into it.

That would be troubling...as that's pretty much all you've got to stand on..because....

Now dealing this out is not a good idea if we ourselves would do anything to avoid it for ourselves, it's not proper treatment of anyone, including animals. Death penalty is reserved for the worst kind of criminals and outlawed in many countries for a good reason!

"Dealing this out" is a fact of biology, chemistry, and politics. We are not autotrophs, livestock is not given a death penalty, and regardless of what you decide to eat (barring widespread assumption of battery farming...with -no- intent to eat said livestock...... or peace in the middle east) you have blood on your hands. Have I not made this clear enough yet?

But lets forget all of that. Couldn't we handle your objection by giving them a sporting chance to do exactly what we (imagine we) would do presented with death? Open the gate, let em run - I don't mind. Humane doesn't enter in, as you said - but hey, at least it would be fair.

[KichigaiNeko]

Coming back to "indoctrinated cruelty towards livestock" ......

In Islamic and Judaic slaughtering practices. Just where do you think this was considered a great idea to the point of being enshrined in religious law?

[KichigaiNeko]

Been meaning to add this...apologies if there appears a disconnect in the discussions



Suffice to say, eat what you like.

[Forbinator]

I'll respond to other points later, but I thought I should add some balance to comparison above (with sample size of one per group!)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9TR8FyZ75l4

[KichigaiNeko]

No one cares Forbi. the point of the above is that "eat what you want and don't let others try so 'socially engineer' you"

[Cato]

Age and looks be damned. I could never trust a female human that doesn't eat meat.

[bennyboy]

Been meaning to add this...apologies if there appears a disconnect in the discussions



Suffice to say, eat what you like.

Sorry, but that's not right. You have to play the odds, and the odds are not in favor of a 51 year-old chain smoker looking better than a 51 year-old health nut. Don't believe me? I'll bet a million dollars you play the lottery.

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I'll respond to other points later, but I thought I should add some balance to comparison above (with sample size of one per group!)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9TR8FyZ75l4

Sorry, but anecdotes for vegans kind of fail, too. How about some numbers?

[Zen Badger]

Age and looks be damned. I could never trust a female human that doesn't eat meat.

Especially if she won't eat my meat.

[KichigaiNeko]

You forgot Susan Sarandon and Helen Miren who are both omnivores, very sexy and are not "youth obsessed" Benny.

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It is very humorous that all these so called "vegan champions" have vested interests in marketing fad diets and dietary information. Nigella Lawson? Makes no excuses to NOT being professionally trained and just loves food and cooking (much liken to our SummerQueen and is a domestic goddess to boot!)

Nah sorry benny, Forbi, endi et al....no sale for your religiosity regarding the way I live................ but thanks for caring about your own elitism.

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Oh...almost forgot.

So we can say that the OP has been debunked? It is NOT "childhood indoctrination" that causes humans to be meat eating omnivores but more genetics?

Personally, I view Vegan/ Vegetarianism taken to this extreme of vocalisation and victimisation of non-vegetarians as amounting to nothing more than a replacement for religion/ political manipulation of the populace.
my 2c

[littleendian]

So we can say that the OP has been debunked? It is NOT "childhood indoctrination" that causes humans to be meat eating omnivores but more genetics?

I would concede that there might be genetic factors involved, but I do not buy your "75% of population can't biologically be vegan" assertion, which until you back it up with evidence I assume was just plucked out of your lower back.

But much more important than genetics is just simply culture, peers and willingness to make an admittedly radical change. Most tastes are acquired, there are excellent protein sources for vegans, and it's fun to do something different! Plus the people are great, although I admit I personally am not coming across so great seeing the strong reactions here. My fault

And it's also about the benefits one gets from it, most amazingly to me: I've never in my life felt so good and had so much love and compassion in my heart, and I have veganism to thank for that. I will forever be thankful to the person who raised my awareness about this I admit I failed at conveying this in the discussion here at these forums, which is evident in the strong reactions