Government is Irrational.

[Koolay]

Small tangent:
From my understanding of the profile of murderers, that behaviour comes about from traumatic experiences in childhood and being brutalised, ignored and abused by their parents and other people.

This is actually NOT the profile of murderers. Murderers come from all walks of life, from all backgrounds, from all kinds of variables.

Your alternative is naive and based on a very poor understanding of human nature.

Okay, well give me some evidence of both claims.

You can't just say I am wrong and not provide any reason or evidence.

[Creed of Heresy]

Actually you made the initial claim. Without evidence. Don't you try to shift burden of proof onto me when you didn't even provide it yourself.

[Koolay]

Actually you made the initial claim. Without evidence. Don't you try to shift burden of proof onto me when you didn't even provide it yourself.

It's essentially a fact of modern psychology by now. There have been thousands of conclusive studies showing that childhood abuse and trauma are the biggest predictor in adverse childhood and adult behaviour. 9/10 professionals in the psychoanalytic field agree that aggressive and abusive parenting produces a higher chance of that child suffering from a multitude of adverse behaviours, from increased suicide rates, drug abuse rates, crime rates, divorce rates, lower life expectancy amongst others.

Just search, it's all there.

[FlyingNarwhal]

Sounds like anarcho-capitalism to me. It's basically the purest form of capitalism the same as communism is the purest form of socialism. The problem with both is that they rely on people being inherently good, which they are not. You have been complaining that the government kills people but you have forgotten that the government is made up of the same people that you say will work together in the absence of it.

Further, your claim that to punish murderers all we have to do is not give them goods or services is bogus. If we live in a purely free society as you wish, then what would stop me if I choose to sell to murderers? The only thing that you have said there is that people won't want to give goods and services to murderers because of some societal moral code. But do you know what always trumps morals? Money. If no one is selling to murderers or rapists then that right there is an untapped market. I could capitalize on that market by selling exclusively to only murderers and rapists so while everyone is splitting the market with the good people, I would have a larger slice of the bad folks. And I would be relatively safe from being attacked by these people because if I am the only one selling to them then they need me as much as I need them.

[simplexity]

But..., that is a government.

If you can't see the government as an initiator of violence, either you are completely retarded or you have an emotional reason for doing so. Either way, I don't want to read on or interact with you any more.

For one, I never said I didn't think the government was an initiator of violence. It definitely can be. Once again the question is how to stop corruption or at least limit it.

I have no idea where you got the information you just seemingly made up in order to have to respond with an insult. If you don't want to give actual justifications and/or actual evidence for what you are arguing you have no reason to be posting on this site. Especially if your only justification is an insult with no evidence.

Please at least read before responding with nonsense.

[Creed of Heresy]

Thank you, I appreciate that. However, your post did not state that it was 9/10, it actually implied that all murderers come from abuse and neglect. Which is, I'm afraid, not true...

You insinuate that it is conclusive that murderers come exclusively from histories of abuse and neglect... This is false.

http://www.nc-cm.org/article213.htm

A large distinction that separates serial killers from other murderers are their motives to kill. Normally homicides are committed due to disputes that range from family affairs, gang violence, financial difficulties, and disputes between lovers and between friends. "A psychokiller, I should make clear, is not a regular murderer. A murderer has a vendetta, a nice specific personal thing against his victim" (Corin 188). Unlike that of a normal homicide, serial killers are only driven by instinct and a desire to kill. Due to these sexual desires and the need to fulfill their arousing fantasies it often drives these individual to murder those who are complete strangers. Though serial killers only make up for one percent murderers nearly a dozen account for one hundred to two hundred murders annually

---

Not to say that the aftermath of serial killers is trivial but the real controversy among theorists lies on how and why serial killers take the step from fantasy to reality. We are all made up of tiny individual genes that make up our personality traits defining who and what we are. Many believe that murderers do not grow into the shell of a killer but have predetermined genes that make up the chemical balance of our brain, body, thoughts, ideas, and most importantly actions. "Generally speaking biological factors vis-à-vis the causes of behavior can be defined as those 'processes and conditions that typically are considered as belonging to or characteristic of the organism'" (Jeffrey 78). As Lucy Corin in Everyday Psycho Killers presents, violence and death is apart of whom we are as humans and shows that violence is most prevalent when we are in our youth. Corin relates to the nature of violence in children and desires that we have whether good or bad in our everyday lives. "One girl had grabbed another girl by the front of the shirt through to her bra and flung her against the beam. The girl lay crumpled on the locker room floor, her head bleeding, her eyes saying more and the girl who had flung her stood over the body, hands on hips, with enormous thighs" (Corin 16).

[FlyingNarwhal]

To further build on what Creed said, there are also murders that fall into the "crime of passion" section. Essentially a murder that was not premeditated. Example being husband comes home and finds his wife cheating on him. Husband kills wife. Child abuse and family neglect have little to do with that, sometimes people just snap. Also we can't forget other motivations such as money which people will kill for no matter what. And in an free society run completely by privatized courts and security as you seem to be implying, there would be really nothing stopping someone from killing to get what they want and paying off the courts and security.

And to go even further, there is nothing stopping someone from from buying up a lot of security and forming a military, and buying a lot of courts and building a government. The problem with anarchy is that in an anarchistic world there is nothing from stopping a group of people from forming together to create their own government, there would be no laws stopping someone from doing that. Humans, like most primates, create social systems. I really don't think anarchy would last more than two generations before government was rebuilt. We crave societal structure.

[Creed of Heresy]

Anarchy is what the foolish teenage highschoolers yearn for because mommy and daddy won't buy them the new Subaru and society is totally not fair to them guyz so they rebel by painting giant anarchy symbols with spraypaint on the walls cuz they're SO HARDCORE.

The ones who don't grow out of it are worse. They're the ones who really just don't get how the world works and are hopelessly idealistic. Unfortunately, reality clashes with the idealist and they feel the need to rebel against everything, regardless of whether or not it's unproductive and pointless and fruitless. "ROW ROW, FIGHT THE POWA!"

[_xenu_]

Loonatarian nonsense: I'm never sure if I should laugh or cry.

[Koolay]

The problem with both is that they rely on people being inherently good, which they are not.

Where's your reason and evidence?

Further, your claim that to punish murderers all we have to do is not give them goods or services is bogus. If we live in a purely free society as you wish, then what would stop me if I choose to sell to murderers?

No, I do not believe in punishment. Social isolation and defence stops evil.

If you openly do business with murderers, I wont want to use your goods and services. As would many others. So you would lose money by tending to someone evil. Money is the best influence on human behaviour as you said. And few people will want to use your goods and services if you are found to help murderers, rapists and thieves. HSBC bank is a good example of this who have been exposed to doing deals with drug launderers and terrorists. And their choices lost them more money and customers in the long term.

Thank you, I appreciate that. However, your post did not state that it was 9/10, it actually implied that all murderers come from abuse and neglect. Which is, I'm afraid, not true...

You insinuate that it is conclusive that murderers come exclusively from histories of abuse and neglect... This is false.

http://www.nc-cm.org/article213.htm

A large distinction that separates serial killers from other murderers are their motives to kill. Normally homicides are committed due to disputes that range from family affairs, gang violence, financial difficulties, and disputes between lovers and between friends. "A psychokiller, I should make clear, is not a regular murderer. A murderer has a vendetta, a nice specific personal thing against his victim" (Corin 188). Unlike that of a normal homicide, serial killers are only driven by instinct and a desire to kill. Due to these sexual desires and the need to fulfill their arousing fantasies it often drives these individual to murder those who are complete strangers. Though serial killers only make up for one percent murderers nearly a dozen account for one hundred to two hundred murders annually

---

Not to say that the aftermath of serial killers is trivial but the real controversy among theorists lies on how and why serial killers take the step from fantasy to reality. We are all made up of tiny individual genes that make up our personality traits defining who and what we are. Many believe that murderers do not grow into the shell of a killer but have predetermined genes that make up the chemical balance of our brain, body, thoughts, ideas, and most importantly actions. "Generally speaking biological factors vis-à-vis the causes of behavior can be defined as those 'processes and conditions that typically are considered as belonging to or characteristic of the organism'" (Jeffrey 78). As Lucy Corin in Everyday Psycho Killers presents, violence and death is apart of whom we are as humans and shows that violence is most prevalent when we are in our youth. Corin relates to the nature of violence in children and desires that we have whether good or bad in our everyday lives. "One girl had grabbed another girl by the front of the shirt through to her bra and flung her against the beam. The girl lay crumpled on the locker room floor, her head bleeding, her eyes saying more and the girl who had flung her stood over the body, hands on hips, with enormous thighs" (Corin 16).

The idea that evil is pre-determined is not true.

It has been well established that you can only have an epigenetic disposition to violent behaviour more than others. But it is only triggered after traumatic experiences. If you don't have the trauma / abuse, then it's not a concern.

Like you could have a family history and disposition to heart disease, but if you exercise regularly and eat low fat then you don't have anything to worry about.