Government is Irrational.

[simplexity]

Koolay, maybe you should look into supporting an actual societal organizing concept(government), that is the closest to what you seem to be speaking for, instead of standing around ranting about anarchy and down with the government. Anarchy would never work because like everyone on this thread has said people will always end up organizing.

Look into
US Libertarian Party
http://www.lp.org

social libertarianism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_socialism

[genkaus]

Similar to God, Government breaks all of it's own rules it inflicts upon it's citizens. For example, The old testament God flooded the entire world killing all of every living thing bar 2 of every species, men, women, children were all drowned from the very same entity that said murdering is always wrong.

If you put the Government through any level of logic or Aristotelian principles it becomes illogical immediately.

Government, similiar to God, kills and inflicts harm on people in mass numbers, breaking and going above and beyond all of the proposed 'rules'.

For example, the government can put people in a cage and call it 'citizen rehabilitation', but if you do it, it is called kidnapping.

The government can kill people and it is called 'freedom fighting' or 'justice' or 'foreign policy', but if you kill people, you are simply called a murderer.

The government can steal and extort money from people and it is called 'taxation', if you do it, you are called a thief.

Not only is government irrational, but it is simply evil if you apply rational thought to it.

All the more reason why it should be held accountable for all its actions.

"Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one." - Thomas Paine

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Pretty simple, society organising without the initiation of force or violence.

And who would ensure that there was no such initiation?

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Small tangent:
From my understanding of the profile of murderers, that behaviour comes about from traumatic experiences in childhood and being brutalised, ignored and abused by their parents and other people. By the point society as a majority realises that initiating violence is wrong, murderers would be such an abnormality it wouldn't even be a concern any more. Similar to how countries that have outgrew religion don't see public executions any more, it's just not a concern anymore since it is such a social taboo. The environment were children would be exposed to abusers would be so rare.

More to the point:
Like anyone that breaks a rule in a rational context- they get banned from goods and services. I don't know what that would look like exactly; technology and process wise (since i cant predict the future).

After all, how many people would willingly do business with a murderer now? let alone in the future.

I think you are confusing murderers with - I don't know what you are confusing them with, but they don't fit such a narrow profile. Even if all of society were to accept initiation of violence as wrong - which they don't - many people would happily commit that wrong if there was a suitable benefit to it. And people would still deal with murderers if they have something to offer.

[bennyboy]

Koolay, I don't think you are so much wishing for an absence of government, as an absence of humanity. The traits you describe are not the norm for the species.

[Koolay]

Koolay, maybe you should look into supporting an actual societal organizing concept(government), that is the closest to what you seem to be speaking for, instead of standing around ranting about anarchy and down with the government. Anarchy would never work because like everyone on this thread has said people will always end up organizing.

Look into
US Libertarian Party
http://www.lp.org

social libertarianism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_socialism

The smaller a government starts, the larger it will become in the end. Freedom creates wealth and wealth attracts thieves; During America's pioneer days, the state was single digit taxes, maybe a sheriff in a town breaking up the occasional fight, and this worked really well and society got rich. Today, that tiny government is now the world's biggest government empire. So the solution is not to plant the seed violence of the government in the first place. There is no right amount of stealing and violence that will make the world a better place.

Pretty simple, society organising without the initiation of force or violence.

And who would ensure that there was no such initiation?

Well, it can pretty easily be solved by giving financial incentive to not initiate violence. The free market is more than capable of doing that through DRO courts and insurance agencies to literal defence in security agencies.

Koolay, I don't think you are so much wishing for an absence of government, as an absence of humanity. The traits you describe are not the norm for the species.

How do you know that? Do you have a galaxy spanning intellect were you can just predict the future and not provide any reason or evidence?

A few thousand years ago, it was the 'norm' to dash your child's head across the rock to appease the volcano god. Or to execute someone publicly for annoying a monarch. How do you know that democratic government is not just another violent phase in human development when we have become so progressively less violent as a species so far?

[simplexity]

People will commit acts of violence with or without government. And we would still be in the dark ages without the sense of security a government provides. All of your arguments are complete nonsense.

[catfish]

So Koolay, what exactly are you voluntarily selling that you expect people to voluntarily purchase?
.

[Koolay]

So Koolay, what exactly are you voluntarily selling that you expect people to voluntarily purchase?
.

Not sure what this has to do with the proposed arguments.

But for the record; I own a workshop in china, and online retail company

[Something completely different]

Not sure what this has to do with the proposed arguments.

But for the record; I own a workshop in china, and online retail company

I sell meth, walked the moon, went to war, banged your wife and make 2 million a day.


Wahre Geschichte Bruder!

[genkaus]

Well, it can pretty easily be solved by giving financial incentive to not initiate violence. The free market is more than capable of doing that through DRO courts and insurance agencies to literal defence in security agencies.

Security agencies are not a good example since they are bound by government laws and the financial incentive in their case is not to avoid initiating violence.

But there is a good example of giving a financial incentive not to initiate violence which can be seen in many urban areas. Its called a protection racket. Business owners giving weekly financial incentive to gangs. And since the government rule in such areas is weakest, it represents most closely what the world would be like if government were to be abolished.

[little_monkey]

@ Koolay

I recommend you move to Somalia, Democratic Republic of the Congo or Sudan, where these don't have any real, effective government. See how you would like living there. But as advice, what you will find there is the following:

Social problems:
Mounting demographic pressures.
Massive displacement of refugees, creating severe humanitarian emergencies.
Widespread vengeance-seeking group grievance.
Chronic and sustained human flight.

Economic problems:
Uneven economic development along group lines.
Severe economic decline.

Political problems
Criminalization and/or delegitimization of the state.
Deterioration of public services.
Suspension or arbitrary application of law; widespread human rights abuses.
Security apparatus operating as a "state within a state".
Rise of factionalized elites.
Intervention of external political agents.