Piracy?

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

Property is property, whether it is physical or intellectual.

Theft is theft. If you take something for which you are supposed to pay and don't pay for it, you are a thief.

'I pay for it when I have the money' might be the lamest excuse for thievery I've ever heard. If you don't have the money for a textbook, does that entitle you to take it? What about a car?

There is a reason for things like lectures, songs, films, and so forth being copyrighted - it is a right of ownership. When you circumvent that right, you prevent the holder of the copyright from receiving his or her (or its, in the case of a corporate entity) legal remuneration.

You want a lecture? Pay for it. A song? Pay for it. A film? Buy it. Don't have the money? Do without. Being a 'have-not' doesn't entitle you to become an 'I-will-take'.

Don't think for one second that what you're doing isn't stealing.

Boru

[Darth]

It's entirely different.

Say I hear your song being played, I never signed anything saying that I would not copy or alter that work for my own benefit. If I buy some software and click the 'agree' button, then yes, but I signed nothing. It's your fault for letting me hear it without having signed anything. Now that I've heard your song, another (probably imperfect) copy exists in my mind, Now we have 2 of them were before there was only one, why can't I profit from the song in my head, you own these thoughts? You tyrant you. They're my thoughts, they're mine, and I can do with them as I please.

Say you have a cd. I steal it. Now you haven't got a cd.

There is your difference.

Intelectual property is bollocks, it expires (in theory, but disney is out to fix that, don't worry), it's giving you the 'right' to control the actions of others when they never consented, the 'right' to own thoughts in other people's minds.

Oh, and you've already paid for the lecture lolololol taxes.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

Say I hear your song being played, I never signed anything saying that I would not copy or alter that work for my own benefit.

I've never signed anything saying that I would not steal your car, burn down your house, or murder you in your sleep. Does that give me the right to do it? Don't be daft. A copyright isn't a contract between two parties, it is the right accorded a creator of intellectual property to protect his or her work.

It's your fault for letting me hear it without having signed anything.

Suppose I write and publish a novel. Does reading it give you the right to plagiarize it?

The rest of your post simply boils down to an attempt to justify theft.

Boru

[Clueless Morgan]

So do you consider back in the day when you would put a cassette in your boombox and record your favorite songs off the radio to be pirating? Or recording TV shows onto VHS tapes so you could watch them weeks, months or years later?

What about sites like playlist.com, are those piracy? You're basically just building a playlist that you have to stream through their website, but you never own any of the music.

Even now you can record TV shows onto DVRs and burn them to DVDs if you have the right equipment, is that piracy?

Is it only piracy when you turn around and sell or otherwise make the property available for a mass market?

To be clear, I'm not defending piracy, I'm simply wondering where the line for piracy is now drawn.

[Jackalope]

So do you consider back in the day when you would put a cassette in your boombox and record your favorite songs off the radio to be pirating? Or recording TV shows onto VHS tapes so you could watch them weeks, months or years later?

What about sites like playlist.com, are those piracy? You're basically just building a playlist that you have to stream through their website, but you never own any of the music.

Even now you can record TV shows onto DVRs and burn them to DVDs if you have the right equipment, is that piracy?

Is it only piracy when you turn around and sell or otherwise make the property available for a mass market?

To be clear, I'm not defending piracy, I'm simply wondering where the line for piracy is now drawn.

Well... It simultaneously is and is not different.

Copyright in the US is supposed to simultaneously protect creator's exclusive rights for a time, and to provide for a rich public domain. It's impossible, IMO, to argue the letter of the constitutional authority hasn't been subverted by Congress (where some works produced early in the last century are still protected).

Time-shifting (I.e. recording on a VCR) is a right protected by some Supreme Court decision I can't recall - as is format shifting (i.e. making a tape recording of a LP).

The recording industry sees digital copies as threatening because there are two factors that exist that do not with analog recordings. One, it's trivial to make a perfect recording of a digital recording - where with analog, you cannot. Second, in the age of the Internet, dissemination of those perfect copies to anyone who wants them is trivially simple, and it is not difficult to understand why the industry would want to discourage such behavior.

Where ought the line be drawn? No idea. It is apparent that Congress is owned by moneyed interests and so it will fall on their side.

[rexbeccarox]

If you know upon attaining something you should be paying for it, but you don't, you know you're doing something wrong. Don't do it. It's theft and it's fucked up. Most of us have a moral compass that says you shouldn't steal, whether it's the law recognizing the theft or not.

---

"I pay for it when I can afford it" is bullshit too.

[Aractus]

Hey I pay for it when I have the money. Your thoughts?

Not that it matters to a blind chick, but if we have to wait for lower quality broadcasts I often download. An example is Doctor Who - I rarely watch the SD 576i, I hate SD resolution on my TV, I usually download the 720p which I get before the lower quality broadcast. If they'd up their game, and actually give us proper quality and undelayed broadcasts then I wouldn't need/want to.

A second reason why piracy is so high, is the R5 DVD releases. Not all studio's are dumb enough to release these, but so many do - and on Blyray's too now. They've effectively created an easy avenue for good quality piracy while movies are still screening in cinemas.

What they should do, but won't, is release movies on PPV at the same time as cinema.

Here's what they do, in Australia. First it's released in cinemas. Then "rental" discs are produced by most studios (this is really, really stupid IMHO). Rental discs cost at least $50 wholesale and are designed specifically not to be purchased by retail customers due to the obscenely high cost. I'm against it because it's two-tier profiteering and it's already been ruled illegal (ie it's illegal if a studio tries to release "rental" and "retail" discs at the same time - more specifically it's illegal for them to put anything on a disc that says it can't be leant/rented/borrowed/resold, etc). Then PPV and retail DVD/BD releases happen co-currently.

PPV should completely replace the "rental disc". This would mean studios would put all the video retailers that rely on new-release rentals out of business swiftly, and they can then have complete control through PPV which will yield them much more than the $50-70/disc (more like $3-4/view profit for the studio and $2-3 profit for the PPV distributor).

They should stop releasing DVD/BD's at high prices - I haven't brought Australian releases on DVD/BD or Australian-release games for years since they're about 1/2 the price on amazon.com/amazon.co.uk. This is another reason why piracy is high - it's much faster for me to get the same movie in either the same or similar quality from a torrent then to order it in from Amazon.

[BrokenQuill92]

Hey I pay for it when I have the money. Your thoughts?

Not that it matters to a blind chick, but if we have to wait for lower quality broadcasts I often download. An example is Doctor Who - I rarely watch the SD 576i, I hate SD resolution on my TV, I usually download the 720p which I get before the lower quality broadcast. If they'd up their game, and actually give us proper quality and undelayed broadcasts then I wouldn't need/want to.

A second reason why piracy is so high, is the R5 DVD releases. Not all studio's are dumb enough to release these, but so many do - and on Blyray's too now. They've effectively created an easy avenue for good quality piracy while movies are still screening in cinemas.

What they should do, but won't, is release movies on PPV at the same time as cinema.

Here's what they do, in Australia. First it's released in cinemas. Then "rental" discs are produced by most studios (this is really, really stupid IMHO). Rental discs cost at least $50 wholesale and are designed specifically not to be purchased by retail customers due to the obscenely high cost. I'm against it because it's two-tier profiteering and it's already been ruled illegal (ie it's illegal if a studio tries to release "rental" and "retail" discs at the same time - more specifically it's illegal for them to put anything on a disc that says it can't be leant/rented/borrowed/resold, etc). Then PPV and retail DVD/BD releases happen co-currently.

PPV should completely replace the "rental disc". This would mean studios would put all the video retailers that rely on new-release rentals out of business swiftly, and they can then have complete control through PPV which will yield them much more than the $50-70/disc (more like $3-4/view profit for the studio and $2-3 profit for the PPV distributor).

They should stop releasing DVD/BD's at high prices - I haven't brought Australian releases on DVD/BD or Australian-release games for years since they're about 1/2 the price on amazon.com/amazon.co.uk. This is another reason why piracy is high - it's much faster for me to get the same movie in either the same or similar quality from a torrent then to order it in from Amazon.

I'm not much for pirating movies. But I do have a tendency to snag books. Usually when I can afford to get a book or when I can't find the book I'm looking for I have a habit of grabbing it where I can find it. Unfortunately accessible books are so expensive. Usually I do feel guilty and try to buy the book when I have to money, if I can't find the book on iTunes I will look for it on other sources.

[là bạn điên]

Digital piracy is really not like theft at all despite the industry's efforts to develop terms like copyright theft (which it isn't).
The whole system was based on the Music recording industry's production of vinyl records which enabled the sound produced by musicians to be heard by lots of people. Before then local bands played music they had little to with the writing of and just reproduced the Music they heard elsewhere suddenly there was lots of money to be made and an entirely new business model came into being.

The industry was a necessary medium between the performer and the audience because production costs were high and the limited exposure meant that promotion was important. The downside is that a lot of performers have been selected as stars because they look good and musicians with incredible talent never go anywhere because they don;t compose their own hits and nor are they attractive enough to perform someone else's. In addition the performer go very little money from recordings and had to make their money touring- the rolling stones still tour for that reason. For a band the contract was a means of generating publicity for their product -ie their show.

Nowadays we don't need the music producer. You can record your own product and upload it for free and then the band makes its money from people who come to their show and buy merchandise.

The book business has always been all about who you know and has lead to abominable books being published and excellent stuff never making it..now its changing again I am not sure how authors will directly make money but I suspect that they will make it from doing 'shows' as well lectures, after dinner speaking, TV appearances or they accept advertising into their product.

Then there is TV, Film and Videogames- they ,too are developing alternative ways to make money -product placement , merchandising being obvious examples.

I own an apartment in South London that overlooks the Oval Cricket ground and hilariously some years ago the Oval was trying to force the local council (who owned the apartments then) to make it impossible to look down into the ground so we wouldn't get free viewing. The council did nothing whether through deciding it was unfeasable or that they didn't care but as a result we started renting out our sitting room on matchdays so people could look our of the big windows straight down onto the match. Is that 'Stealing'?

[NoraBrimstone]

I pay for spotify. I have no reason to steal music like a cheap git.