Any Vegetarians/Vegans here?

[bennyboy]

And how does this answer my post? Are you trying to tell me to spend more time thinking about food? That's not happening. if you read my original reply, you would know food is a HUGE stressor for me, maybe my biggest. I refuse to allow it to be more of one. My psychologist agrees.

All this is fine. It's obvious that people have a high level of motivation to eat meat, and that this motivation varies among individuals. In some circles, for example artsy or "liberal" groups, meat-eating could serve as a social stressor-- you feel guilty that others become vegetarian, but doing so is so unpleasant for you that you "fail."

The nutrition of vegetarianism is well-known; I don't believe any cases of people saying they "must" eat meat to survive or to be healthy. But for those who easily give it up to belittle or demonize those who are more motivated to eat meat is cruel IMO and shows a lack of understanding. And even more cruel would be those who demonize themselves for this same reason.

Look at any other motivated behavior. Breathing, for example. What if we could hard-wire oxygen straight into the body, making breathing no longer necessary? I guarantee that a % of the population would totally freak out on an instinct level when their lungs were stopped. Or look at sex: some find it unpleasant or boring, while for others, due to their natural makeup, it's the be-all-end-all of existence. It doesn't really make sense to see virtue in those who don't like it much anyway, or to demonize those who do.

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FFS do some mathematics. As I said it takes 7 times as much plant protein fed to cows as it does to get one times in return. So to eat beef you need 7 times as much arable land than you would do if you eat the grain directly. If you use land for grass rather than grains then it goes well above that. So its a massive difference

I think in principle you are basically right, but a little innacurate. Grazing cows don't tend to chop voles or birds into little pieces. So if you can prevent industrial ploughing of say a quarter acre per animal, the question is this: how many animals, on average, die per hectare (or acre or whatever) of farming?

I don't know the answer, but my guess is that the number of incidental farm-machinery-based deaths of little critters in a field capable of supporting one bovine animal is greater than one. Therefore the consumption of grass-fed cows will save lives over the consumption of grain-fed cows. In the case of grain-fed people, obviously the greater efficiency will decrease that count-- but even vegetarian eating will still indirectly cause the deaths of many innocent creatures; to really be blood-free, you have to be willing to take control of your own food production, or be a hypocrite to a degree if you are not willing to change your lifestyle.

That being said, we're missing an important option: if people really cared about their impact on their animals, it might be possible to develop food-producing technologies that do NOT incidentally kill little critters. But at our current stage, that seems pretty far off.

[The_Thinking_Theist]

I'm (trying) to be vegan. I realized what a hypocrite I said for all life was sacred and eating animals. Now I'm trying to not justify my actions but live to my values.

[ElleBelle]

Nope. Meat eater here.

[bennyboy]

I'm (trying) to be vegan. I realized what a hypocrite I said for all life was sacred and eating animals. Now I'm trying to not justify my actions but live to my values.

Yeast and soy ftw?

[Clueless Morgan]

They are euthanised because there is no human alternative. Many of the No Kill shelters have appalling conditions and those that doen;t have a chronic shortage of space. there just aren;t the facilities to house so many dogs.

So your rational is Pitbulls should be euthanised when they can't be rehomed and there are no shelters with decent-enough conditions to house them...

BUT DON'T EAT THEM AFTER YOU KILL THEM!!!



And I call shenanigans on the "no human alternative" crap - the human alternative is to build more shelters to house the animals that can't be rehomed. Obviously there are funding constraints to this solution but don't bullshit anyone about there not being any human alternatives. They're out there and if PETA wanted all animals to be treated ethically than they would find a way to build these shelters and not euthanize these dogs.

[The_Thinking_Theist]

I'm (trying) to be vegan. I realized what a hypocrite I said for all life was sacred and eating animals. Now I'm trying to not justify my actions but live to my values.

Yeast and soy ftw?

Trying, my friend, trying. As far as I'm concerned you can take my cheese dip from my cold, dead, hands.

[bennyboy]

Yeast and soy ftw?

Trying, my friend, trying. As far as I'm concerned you can take my cheese dip from my cold, dead, hands.

haha I'm not vegan either, and cheese is probably the main reason why.

[FlyingNarwhal]

FFS do some mathematics. As I said it takes 7 times as much plant protein fed to cows as it does to get one times in return. So to eat beef you need 7 times as much arable land than you would do if you eat the grain directly. If you use land for grass rather than grains then it goes well above that. So its a massive difference

Out of curiosity as a vegan do you eat organic food only? Considering conventional farming uses pesticides that I suspect would probably have some kind of ill effect I would assume you may only eat organic?

[KichigaiNeko]

And how does this answer my post? Are you trying to tell me to spend more time thinking about food? That's not happening. if you read my original reply, you would know food is a HUGE stressor for me, maybe my biggest. I refuse to allow it to be more of one. My psychologist agrees.

All this is fine. It's obvious that people have a high level of motivation to eat meat, and that this motivation varies among individuals. In some circles, for example artsy or "liberal" groups, meat-eating could serve as a social stressor-- you feel guilty that others become vegetarian, but doing so is so unpleasant for you that you "fail."

The nutrition of vegetarianism is well-known; I don't believe any cases of people saying they "must" eat meat to survive or to be healthy. But for those who easily give it up to belittle or demonize those who are more motivated to eat meat is cruel IMO and shows a lack of understanding. And even more cruel would be those who demonize themselves for this same reason.

Look at any other motivated behavior. Breathing, for example. What if we could hard-wire oxygen straight into the body, making breathing no longer necessary? I guarantee that a % of the population would totally freak out on an instinct level when their lungs were stopped. Or look at sex: some find it unpleasant or boring, while for others, due to their natural makeup, it's the be-all-end-all of existence. It doesn't really make sense to see virtue in those who don't like it much anyway, or to demonize those who do.

---

FFS do some mathematics. As I said it takes 7 times as much plant protein fed to cows as it does to get one times in return. So to eat beef you need 7 times as much arable land than you would do if you eat the grain directly. If you use land for grass rather than grains then it goes well above that. So its a massive difference

I think in principle you are basically right, but a little innacurate. Grazing cows don't tend to chop voles or birds into little pieces. So if you can prevent industrial ploughing of say a quarter acre per animal, the question is this: how many animals, on average, die per hectare (or acre or whatever) of farming?

I don't know the answer, but my guess is that the number of incidental farm-machinery-based deaths of little critters in a field capable of supporting one bovine animal is greater than one. Therefore the consumption of grass-fed cows will save lives over the consumption of grain-fed cows. In the case of grain-fed people, obviously the greater efficiency will decrease that count-- but even vegetarian eating will still indirectly cause the deaths of many innocent creatures; to really be blood-free, you have to be willing to take control of your own food production, or be a hypocrite to a degree if you are not willing to change your lifestyle.

That being said, we're missing an important option: if people really cared about their impact on their animals, it might be possible to develop food-producing technologies that do NOT incidentally kill little critters. But at our current stage, that seems pretty far off.

Sorry bennyboy, but your statements are the reason I lean towards the concept that vegetarianism/ veganism is just a cult. "You didn't try/ pray hard enough, didn't give it enough time, are too lazy ....yadida... yadida.

Fanciful thinking but impractical mate.

One question.... What is going to happen when climate change affects the capacity to grow food crops to feed 7 billion people when we are struggling to feed them now?

[là bạn điên]

FFS do some mathematics. As I said it takes 7 times as much plant protein fed to cows as it does to get one times in return. So to eat beef you need 7 times as much arable land than you would do if you eat the grain directly. If you use land for grass rather than grains then it goes well above that. So its a massive difference

Out of curiosity as a vegan do you eat organic food only? Considering conventional farming uses pesticides that I suspect would probably have some kind of ill effect I would assume you may only eat organic?

I cannot ensure that everything I eat is organic because the food chain is so complicated I have an issue with pesticides because of the damage they do to birds who eat the insects.

However there is a problem that organic farming is a less efficient user of land than non organic farming.

On the other hand I have no issue with GM foods at all., I think they are very valuable especially developments like Golden rice.

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I think in principle you are basically right, but a little innacurate. Grazing cows don't tend to chop voles or birds into little pieces. So if you can prevent industrial ploughing of say a quarter acre per animal, the question is this: how many animals, on average, die per hectare (or acre or whatever) of farming?

Most of the meat produced in the USA/Europe is grain fed or massively grain supplemented so you kill more voles etc through grain fed beef than by eating the grain directly.

I have donated money to a project that is trying to devise a system that will scare off rodents from fields just before harvesting. Not sure how it workds.