Any Vegetarians/Vegans here?

[James2014]

So they can remember, so what? Lots of animals can remember past events, it doesn't mean they obsess and worry about the past like we do, or get stressed and apprehensive about the future. We are the only animals to do that. Those studies say nothing about emotion at all. And no, there is no way that any animal has the same range of emotions as humans do. Its down to our significantly higher intelligence that we feel emotion much more acutely than any other animal. Thats the reason why you are overriding your nature and indeed disobeying the laws of nature, of eating meat, because you feel bad about it.

When an animal expresses distress and horror at being about to be killed I would say it experiences significant apprehension about the future! At least humans have the ability to use language to rationalise pain and suffering, for example temporalising it to reduce anxiety. Animals do not have this ability and could therefore feel the things they do feel even more acutely. We don't know.

Since when is disobeying the "laws of nature"(whatever they are) wrong? I would rather take antibiotics to cure a simple infection than let nature takes it course and potentially die! If someone were to force nature on their ill child by preventing them from taking antibiotics, I would say that is wrong, and would support the state in ensuring they were given antibiotics. Its the same with meat eating, "natural" but also cruel and wrong.

[KichigaiNeko]

Just face the facts jg...you are happy being a "pill popper"


This is your preference and no one else cares.

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Question.
Somebody said that while herbivores have the bacteria to produce b12 human being have not such a bacteria.
Now could be that people eating meat have not such a bacteria because their body does not need to produce them as they get b12 from meat while vegetarians and vegan develop such a bacteria as they don't get b12 from meat so their body-mind see the need to produce these bacteria?
Has anyone check the guts of meat eating people and veg to see whether there is a difference in bacteria?

Interesting. Tired and on mobile device right now, but do you have any evidence to support this enrico? If so post here.

[Little Rik]

Question.
Somebody said that while herbivores have the bacteria to produce b12 human being have not such a bacteria.
Now could be that people eating meat have not such a bacteria because their body does not need to produce them as they get b12 from meat while vegetarians and vegan develop such a bacteria as they don't get b12 from meat so their body-mind see the need to produce these bacteria?
Has anyone check the guts of meat eating people and veg to see whether there is a difference in bacteria?

Interesting. Tired and on mobile device right now, but do you have any evidence to support this enrico? If so post here.

No, i don't have any evidence that is why i ask a question in the hope that someone expert can answer me.
I think this is the case as i know several vegan that are quite ok even in their 70.

[KichigaiNeko]

Just face the facts jg...you are happy being a "pill popper"


This is your preference and no one else cares.

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Interesting. Tired and on mobile device right now, but do you have any evidence to support this enrico? If so post here.

No, i don't have any evidence that is why i ask a question in the hope that someone expert can answer me.
I think this is the case as i know several vegan that are quite ok even in their 70.

Google is our friend.... Go have a look. I will to. Bound to come close to some paper or other looking into this.

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Ok quick flick and this for starters

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_B12

[James2014]

It is an interesting question. I have seen evidence that veganism does change the bacteria that live in the gut, although bacteria are not produced by the gut as such, but rather the change in diet changes the environment of the gut to favour the survival and growth of certain bacteria over others. As to whether this change in diet could result in increased bacteria that produce B12 and so allow them not to require B12 in the diet, I would say this is unlikely as many vegans who do not take supplements or fortified foods become anaemic from lack of b12.

KichigaiNeko, you say veganism is just a preference, but if there are ethical reasons to go vegan, such as reducing suffering of animals, reducing environmental damage, and improving health, then if that is true people SHOULD go vegan.

[KichigaiNeko]

Most of the other results require purchase or a log in to get any detailed information.

Search was phrased as B12 synthesis.

You may need a degree of knowledge for biochemistry and bacteriology to understand what the research is talking about.

[EgoRaptor]

[KichigaiNeko]

KichigaiNeko, you say veganism is just a preference, but if there are ethical reasons to go vegan, such as reducing suffering of animals, reducing environmental damage, and improving health, then if that is true people SHOULD go vegan.

What part of

"It's YOUR personal preference" don't you understand?

What part of "Don't tell me what I Should" do just to make you feel less guilty.... That road leads to religion

Is this what you are advocating jg? A Vegan religion?

[Aractus]

Most arguments to allow eating meat can be used to defend having an arranged/Forced marriage with a 12 year old girl

You are so full of shit.

In Judaism when young girls were married at 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, etc it was typically to men who were 2-5 years older. So you can shove your moral argument. I have news for you - not every marriage was arranged either, and also arranged marriages actually do work very well.

The girls that marry at 15 don't stay that age indefinitely you know.

And FYI - Islamic cultures are the present, not the past (if you want to go down that road).

[James2014]

There is such a thing as ethics without religion you know. Are you saying we SHOULD never tell people what they SHOULD do? Seems a bit inconsistent to me.