My reversion to Islam (believe in Quran again)

[Foxaèr]

Religion is very horrible but is so is lack of religion.

False. I know of not a single violent act that was ever perpetrated in the name of atheism.

[Mystic]

Religion is very horrible but is so is lack of religion.

I know of not a single violent act that was ever perpetrated in the name of atheism.

Your point?

[Foxaèr]

Your point?

Was quite clear.

[fr0d0]

Religion is very horrible but is so is lack of religion.

False. I know of not a single violent act that was ever perpetrated in the name of atheism.

What, like "I claim nothing motivated me to do that!"

Yeah I get you

[Bad Writer]

If one thing is horrible, its absence should make a situation better, like removing a tumor from the human body. What you're suggesting, MK, is that a world with and without religion is a bad thing...you can't have your cake and eat it too.

[Mystic]

If it was the case that humanity united upon the truth without need of God intervening, rose for justice, were good to one another, united, followed wisdom, and our humanity was the true religion, I don't think God would need to send revelations. But as humanity makes up religions, divides upon them, follows ignorance often, and is divided, the world has religion. Living in such a world while you as an individual follow no religion is just as bad as following an individual religion.

[Foxaèr]

If it was the case that humanity united upon the truth without need of God intervening, rose for justice, were good to one another, united, followed wisdom, and our humanity was the true religion, I don't think God would need to send revelations.

He does not, though. Man who thinks he is receiving a divine revelation is merely delusional.

But as humanity makes up religions, divides upon them, follows ignorance often, and is divided, the world has religion. Living in such a world while you as an individual follow no religion is just as bad as following an individual religion.

Please elaborate on that and explain in concise detail precisely how that is remotely true.

Especially, when statistics show that people who follow a secular, humanistic worldview tend to be law abiding citizens and more moral than their religious counterparts. After all, the concept of religion entitles theists to believe that their bad behavior is rewarded by a deity that accepts it as perfectly legitimate.

[*Deidre*]

I know of not a single violent act that was ever perpetrated in the name of atheism.

Your point?

Many commit heinous acts in the name of their religion, had religion not existed, we might not have seen such acts. My view in these cases is that mankind will always have within it, depravity. Depraved people who consider themselves religious often lean towards the radical end of things, and then use/abuse their religion as a scapegoat for their misdeeds. Not all religious people are depraved obviously, but it stands to reason that heinous acts carried out in the name of religion might not happen as frequently if religion simply didn't exist.

Take the case of people who refuse medical treatment for their children because their religion forbids it. This is wrong on a number of levels but it gives an abusive parent a way out. Religion is often used in this manner from small scale cases like this to larger ones. If it didn't exist, people wouldn't be able to shield their depravity with it.

[Alex K]

Religion is very horrible but is so is lack of religion.

Contradictory statement.

It's not contradictory. It's merely the insight that the world ia horrible either way
We should however pay attention to the fine print. Which is horribler? And,the first and last concern of every serious thinker: is it true?

Why is this important? Because, as any first year student of logic can tell you, anything can be derived from a false statement, including the most poisonous ideas.

[Mystic]

Please elaborate on that and explain in concise detail precisely how that is remotely true.

Well for one thing you are just as frustrated about false religions as people claiming to follow the one true religion. You are just as frustrated by the evils of this world with no way of solving it. You can work for good of this world by following a religion or by being secular, but at the end, you can't bring about all goodness in this world. Wars continue due to nationalism and other reasons. Your moral views are just one the many views out there just as in the case if you followed a religion. But the main point was religions and differences don't cease to exist if we don't as individuals believe in religion. People will still be intolerant towards us etc....

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Contradictory statement.

It's not contradictory. It's merely the insight that the world ia horrible either way

Yeah. This world is a trial whether you believed it's been designed to be that or not. It tests our will either way.

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Your point?

Many commit heinous acts in the name of their religion, had religion not existed, we might not have seen such acts. My view in these cases is that mankind will always have within it, depravity. Depraved people who consider themselves religious often lean towards the radical end of things, and then use/abuse their religion as a scapegoat for their misdeeds. Not all religious people are depraved obviously, but it stands to reason that heinous acts carried out in the name of religion might not happen as frequently if religion simply didn't exist.

Take the case of people who refuse medical treatment for their children because their religion forbids it. This is wrong on a number of levels but it gives an abusive parent a way out. Religion is often used in this manner from small scale cases like this to larger ones. If it didn't exist, people wouldn't be able to shield their depravity with it.

But people are going to create false religions as you say. It's a problem with humanity. So why would it be illogical for God to remind us of our humanity and create a true religion in midst of that?

I think we both agree religion is a problem and the way humanity uses it is a problem. That is why I believe we need some help from God.