Why is evolution hiding?

[Phatt Matt s]

Thanks! That is fuckin phenomenal!

Can't give kudos with this stupid browser unfortunately

[Angrboda]

I have more questions it's just an issue of whether or not I want this to turn into a hundred page thread

Start by seeing if your question has already been asked and answered in TalkOrigins: Index To Creationist Claims.

Then more generally at TalkOrigins. The site was started as a repository of a usenet newsgroup devoted primarily to answering creationist questions and arguments with scientific answers. You can learn a great deal by reading the articles there. (I think I've read the entire site twice.)

[Phatt Matt s]

I'm not much of a creationist. I do believe in Evolution. I just consider God to be the force behind natural selection that determined in a million years this lizard will fly.

I don't believe the whole...on the sixth day God said....and there was...and on the seventh day God rested.

[Rampant.A.I.]

I just consider God to be the force behind natural selection that determined in a million years this lizard will fly.

Flying lizard


Bird


Dinosaur

[Esquilax]

I'm not much of a creationist. I do believe in Evolution. I just consider God to be the force behind natural selection that determined in a million years this lizard will fly.

First of all, why bother with the god part of that, when you can't detect that it's there and have no evidence for it? Occam's Razor, dude.

Second of all, you have it backwards: nothing "decided" that the lizard would fly. Over time, traits that would eventually enable flight were proven to be advantageous to the lizard's survival, and so they got passed down to the offspring.

[Rampant.A.I.]

Why are we still calling birds lizards?

[Phatt Matt s]

Reptiles are lower life forms. THey came first.

I consider God to be the wisdom behind knowing that those traits would benefit the future Birds.

Also, I've read into the personal testimonies of Scientists who converted as a result of studying the miralce worker Saints, The Shroud of Turin, The Guadalupe Mantle, etc.

I've done the research with skepticism and know there is a lot of bullshit out there, but am convinced that Science has put forth evidence that has been tested by Scientific method and is in favor of a higher providential power. Aka (God)

[Rampant.A.I.]

Seems like a lot of extra steps to create a bird. Why not just Fiat them?

Also seems like the common misunderstanding that evolution has goals.

[Angrboda]

I consider God to be the wisdom behind knowing that those traits would benefit the future Birds.

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Claim CB941:
How do things know how to evolve? For example, how do plants know what flavor of berries to evolve so the birds will eat and disperse them? How does a coconut tree know there is an ocean nearby?

Source:
"Roadking1576", 2003 (Aug. 20). Got a question. Talk.origins post, Message-ID: <[email protected]>

Response:

• The organism does not know anything. It is all just the "blind watchmaker" at work. All sorts of mutations happen all the time. Most of them are useless or even detrimental in the environment they find themselves in, and those are mostly eliminated. The occasional mutation that increases its bearer's reproductive success is preserved and spreads throughout the population in future generations. For example, different individual plants produce (over time) different flavors of seeds. The flavors that birds like more get dispersed more and thrive more; those that birds do not like fall by the wayside. The end result is that berries evolve to become more flavorful to birds.
  
  
• Individual organisms do not evolve; populations evolve. The individual's role is to survive and reproduce, or not. Those with beneficial variation are more likely to survive and reproduce.
  

Further Reading:
Dawkins, Richard, 1986. The Blind Watchmaker: why the evidence of evolution reveals a universe without design. New York: Norton.

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Really, dude. This was on the list I just gave you. You're not even trying.

See also: TalkOrigins - Evolution and Philosophy: Is There Progress and Direction in Evolution?

[Phatt Matt s]

I consider God to be the wisdom behind knowing that those traits would benefit the future Birds.

---

Claim CB941:
How do things know how to evolve? For example, how do plants know what flavor of berries to evolve so the birds will eat and disperse them? How does a coconut tree know there is an ocean nearby?

Source:
"Roadking1576", 2003 (Aug. 20). Got a question. Talk.origins post, Message-ID: <[email protected]>

Response:

• The organism does not know anything. It is all just the "blind watchmaker" at work. All sorts of mutations happen all the time. Most of them are useless or even detrimental in the environment they find themselves in, and those are mostly eliminated. The occasional mutation that increases its bearer's reproductive success is preserved and spreads throughout the population in future generations. For example, different individual plants produce (over time) different flavors of seeds. The flavors that birds like more get dispersed more and thrive more; those that birds do not like fall by the wayside. The end result is that berries evolve to become more flavorful to birds.
  
  
• Individual organisms do not evolve; populations evolve. The individual's role is to survive and reproduce, or not. Those with beneficial variation are more likely to survive and reproduce.
  

Further Reading:
Dawkins, Richard, 1986. The Blind Watchmaker: why the evidence of evolution reveals a universe without design. New York: Norton.

---

Really, dude. This was on the list I just gave you. You're not even trying.

See also: TalkOrigins - Evolution and Philosophy: Is There Progress and Direction in Evolution?

No,
I wasn't even asking a question.

But thanks!