Was Jesus a great moral teacher?

[Sinbad]

Jesus would certainly have been a moral teacher. He was certainly something along those lines as he upset the corrupt establishment and high priesthood of his time.
Wether some or all of his quotes and parables were really uttered by him, or added later during the evilution of the bible, we will never know.

[Jacob(smooth)]

One has to consider the context.

Here is a fun quote

“I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in anyway the social and political equality of the white and black races – that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race. I say upon this occasion I do not perceive that because the white man is to have the superior position the negro should be denied everything.”

By today's standard, these are the words of an unapologetic racist. These words were spoken by Abraham Lincoln, who is widely regarded as a champion of racial equality, who "freed the slave" no less. So was he a racist?

It depends on the context. By today's morality, things like forbidding women from speaking in church is hugely immoral. However at the time the mere fact that this was even an issue was amazingly progressive! Women in Judaism were not, I believe, even aloud to learn in the temple, much less teach. So was Paul a feminist or a chauvinist? Depends which direction you look from.

I would say that, for his time, Jesus was radically advanced and a great moralist. The fact that by the standards of morality of today, some of his teachings have been surpassed is not so remarkable as the fact that others have not.

[Chad32]

Well that's super that Jesus was better than some people of his time. The difference between him and Lincoln is that he's supposed to serve/be a higher power that can see into the far future, or have knowledge beyond any human being and can see that things like equality can work. Women can be equal to men. People of different color can be just as good as each other if they truly have the same opportunities. There are better ways of dealing with people who do wrong than to just kill them all. That adults should be able to do whatever they want without persecution, as all as all parties are consentual.

Basically, things that took us thousands of years to figure out, he should have already known. You can't compare Jesus to Lincoln.

[cromwell]

His emphasis on non-violence, loving your enemies, not judging others as you are not innocent yourself, helping the poor and strangers was something quite remarkable for that time. Like gandhi once said, I like your jesus, but you christians are so unlike him.

[Jacob(smooth)]

Well that's super that Jesus was better than some people of his time. The difference between him and Lincoln is that he's supposed to serve/be a higher power that can see into the far future, or have knowledge beyond any human being and can see that things like equality can work. Women can be equal to men. People of different color can be just as good as each other if they truly have the same opportunities. There are better ways of dealing with people who do wrong than to just kill them all. That adults should be able to do whatever they want without persecution, as all as all parties are consentual.

Basically, things that took us thousands of years to figure out, he should have already known. You can't compare Jesus to Lincoln.

Let me ask you this. If jesus had not become the focus of a religion, would it alter your view at all?

The question is not whether he was good enough to make it reasonable to suspect he was divine. It is simply was he ahead of the curve. I think he was.

[Chad32]

Being ahead of the curve doesn't make someone worthy of worship. If there had been someone espousing being nice to each other and helping the poor, he may have a similar place to Ghandi, or all the other teachers who taught peace and kindness. We'd also laugh at his apocalyptic views, and feel bad about everyone who gave away all their possessions because he made them believe that the world was going to end in their lifetimes.

[sven]

Many unbelievers have said so. I can remember writing down that I still considered Jesus a great moral teacher just at the point where I fully accepted that I had become an agnostic. Quite recently on The Clergy Project a minister who had abandoned his supernatural beliefs posted that he will always be a Christian in his ethics.

A very famous case indeed was Thomas Jefferson. He was a deist and despised Christian theology about atonement through the blood of Jesus and other such topics. He even went so far as to construct his own bible, properly entitled The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth, which he made "by cutting and pasting with a razor and glue numerous sections from the New Testament as extractions of the doctrine of Jesus. Jefferson's condensed composition is especially notable for its exclusion of all miracles by Jesus and most mentions of the supernatural, including sections of the four gospels which contain the Resurrection and most other miracles, and passages indicating Jesus was divine." (Wikipedia)

Lately, however, I am no longer so sure that much of Jesus' ethical teaching is practical and useful in life. It seems to me that a lot of it is too extreme for us to follow. I won't say any more at present because I want to hear your responses.

Just one caution, Christianity, especially the Lutheran branch, has a pat response to my complaint of extremism. Yes, they'll say, the ethical teaching of Jesus is perfectionistic because it is intended to show us how far we fall short of the righteousness of God and how much we need forgiveness. I'm simply not interested in hearing any riffs on this theme from Christians. I just want to know if you think the ethics taught by Jesus are realistic and doable.

I don't think they are realistic and doable. For example, Jesus didn't just agree that breaking one of the ten commandments was a sin -- he also said that just thinking about breaking them was a sin. This makes it impossible to follow the ten commandments. A moral teacher who teaches morals that it is impossible to successfully live by, of what use is he?
If you never think about breaking one of 'the ten' you are not human, in my opinion.
This is just one little problem concerning Jesus as moral guru. There are many more.

[truthBtold]

Like he didnt think that the whore that was possessed and came to him had nice juggs that he wanted to MOTOR BOAT them.. yeah right!!! People gotta understand that jesus had human blood. If u got human blood ur a sinner.. jesus was a sinner.. ha!!

[Brian37]

Jefferson liked Jesus much in the same way he liked Plato and Socrates, but he did not view Jesus as a man/god.

Having said that, if I could have lived back then knowing what I know now I would have argued with Jefferson, who would have enjoyed the challenge, that Jesus was not the moral leader he wanted him to be. I'd also get into Plato's faults too, but that is a different subject.

Jefferson cherry picked like they all do. "Love thy neighbor" "give to the poor" "turn the other cheek ", all sound nice, until you take take them into context with the other things he says and the entire bible itself.

Jesus also tells you that "I bring not peace but a sword" and tells you to abandon your own family and friends if they don't follow you. That is a conformist attitude and Jefferson himself didn't like the idea of blind obedience.

And without the consent of humans Jesus makes the decision for you whom you forgive which takes away your own autonomy. In reality if we don't like someone and want to leave them we can and we don't even have to like them or forgive them, even if we are not allowed to kill them.

And in the entire context of the bible the argument goes "that was the OT God, the NT Jesus/God doesn't do that anymore".

The OT God murders or condones the murder of rivals so that would like a serial killer asking you to forget prior murders because they promise not to do it again. Even with the NT, this God of Jesus, which is also the OT god, at the end of the book goes right back to getting violent with his rivals.

So pointing out acts of kindness in the NT would be like saying Kim Jong Un has a dog he doesn't kick anymore.

[truthBtold]

Jefferson liked Jesus much in the same way he liked Plato and Socrates, but he did not view Jesus as a man/god.

Having said that, if I could have lived back then knowing what I know now I would have argued with Jefferson, who would have enjoyed the challenge, that Jesus was not the moral leader he wanted him to be. I'd also get into Plato's faults too, but that is a different subject.

Jefferson cherry picked like they all do. "Love thy neighbor" "give to the poor" "turn the other cheek ", all sound nice, until you take take them into context with the other things he says and the entire bible itself.

Jesus also tells you that "I bring not peace but a sword" and tells you to abandon your own family and friends if they don't follow you. That is a conformist attitude and Jefferson himself didn't like the idea of blind obedience.

And without the consent of humans Jesus makes the decision for you whom you forgive which takes away your own autonomy. In reality if we don't like someone and want to leave them we can and we don't even have to like them or forgive them, even if we are not allowed to kill them.

And in the entire context of the bible the argument goes "that was the OT God, the NT Jesus/God doesn't do that anymore".

The OT God murders or condones the murder of rivals so that would like a serial killer asking you to forget prior murders because they promise not to do it again. Even with the NT, this God of Jesus, which is also the OT god, at the end of the book goes right back to getting violent with his rivals.

So pointing out acts of kindness in the NT would be like saying Kim Jong Un has a dog he doesn't kick anymore.

A- fucking- men to that !!!