Who throws the dice for you?

[tor]

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Negative Lastpoet.

When it is said that randomness is a function of ignorance, what is meant is that the variables responsible for a result are unknown to the observer of the "random" event.

Regardless of what the event is there is only a set number of possible outcomes. So in reality there is no such thing as a random event. A random event would be something like putting on your shoes and then ending up on the moon.

[Heywood]

It is a perfectly valid question to ask from where the randomness we observe in quantum mechanics comes.

And if we don't have the answer, then... God of the gaps?

No God of the gaps for reasons already explained in this thread.

You have 3 options.

1. A supernatural dice roller.
2. Bell's theorem is somehow wrong.
3. Randomness is not a function of ignorance but a property of the universe.

I'd dismiss 2 before I dismiss 1. I don't like 3 very much because it completely contradicts my experience.

[Cato]

No God of the gaps for reasons already explained in this thread.

You have 3 options.

1. A supernatural dice roller.
2. Bell's theorem is somehow wrong.
3. Randomness is not a function of ignorance but a property of the universe.

I'd dismiss 2 before I dismiss 1. I don't like 3 very much because it completely contradicts my experience.

Would love to hear your experience of a supernatural dice roller.

[Rampant.A.I.]

No, you don't understand Cato. Phenomena *must* have a supernatural cause. For example, Thunder and Lighting must necessarily have a supernatural thunder-roller/lightening thrower.

[LostLocke]

No, you don't understand Cato. Phenomena *must* have a supernatural cause. For example, Thunder and Lighting must necessarily have a supernatural thunder-roller/lightening thrower.

Roll 1d20, save versus reflex or take 2d12+2 points of damage per lightening strike.

That's pretty much what it come down to, right?

[Rampant.A.I.]

Yes. There must be a supernatural being who, as part of probability, rolls dice and sorts out the probabilities of everything happening in the universe.

Probability being a function of the natural universe is just too unbelievable, you see. There must be a guy like us determining it. Only he has to determine it for every single event, down to the subatomic level.

This explains the problem of evil: God is too busy shaking a near infinite number of dice cups, tabulating results and distributing them to worry about it.

[Heywood]

No, you don't understand Cato. Phenomena *must* have a supernatural cause. For example, Thunder and Lighting must necessarily have a supernatural thunder-roller/lightening thrower.

Negative Rampant.

Once science has shown that a phenomena cannot be explained by local physical causes(remember Bell's theorem) it would be incredulous to not consider non-local/non physical causes. You seem to conveniently ignore science when it suits you....I think that is the second time you've gone fundie in this thread.

[Ben Davis]

Once science has shown that a phenomena cannot be explained by local physical causes(remember Bell's theorem) it would be incredulous to not consider non-local/non physical causes. You seem to conveniently ignore science when it suits you....I think that is the second time you've gone fundie in this thread.

Stop throwing Bell's theorem around, you're misusing it. I've already picked you up on that.

And are you ever going to answer my question?

But I'll bite: I'll go ahead and grant you a control mechanism. Please show how this would be evidence for 'god'.

[tor]

Heywood you are saying that randomness can't be explained by physical causes then it must have supernatural cause. But if god is random what does that explain? Randomness just exists. But it exists in another dimension. You just moved it. You didn't solve the problem.

[Heywood]

Heywood you are saying that randomness can't be explained by physical causes then it must have supernatural cause. But if god is random what does that explain? Randomness just exists. But it exists in another dimension. You just moved it. You didn't solve the problem.

Negative Tor

I never said it must have a supernatural cause. That seems to be your conclusion. I said there are 3 possibilities. I will repeat them for you.

1. A supernatural dice roller.
2. Bell's theorem is somehow wrong.
3. Randomness is not a function of ignorance but a property of the universe.

I said it would be incredulous to dismiss 1(and it is...many of you atheists are incredulous...you just don't realize it). Now I would like to add a 4th possibility that I thought of.

4. Hugh Everett's many world interpretation of quantum mechanics is correct.

I like 1 better than 4,but I like 4 better than 2 or 3.