Vaccines are a plot by big pharma!

[Fidel_Castronaut]

Have you ever heard of supporting your own assertions?

Yea that is why I used Google, there's heaps of info out there and I guess you already know most of it, its just that you don't believe it, where as I do, that's all it is, I have my beliefs and you have yours.

Nope.

You've got 'beliefs', we have evidence based conclusions on the efficacy of a vaccination programme eliminating diseases and protecting the immuno-compromised.

But please don't left facts and research get in the way of your 'beliefs'. We know how precious they are to you. I just really hope you don't get a viral infection that would otherwise have been impossible had people recieved their vaccinations.

[Ben Davis]

Sorry, but there's an epidemic of whooping cough recently in California and I suspect that it will be traced, as many outbreaks of measels and other ailments have been, to unvaccinated children.

We're seeing similar in the UK for Measles. There's been a massive increase in confirmed cases in the past 6 years and a doubling of deaths*. This is an easily preventable illness, controlled primarily by vaccination. The anti-vax movement is encouraging parents to kill their children. If I had the power, I'd find a way to hold anti-vax advocates criminally responsible.

*source: HPA statistics 1996-2013

[Fidel_Castronaut]

One more thing which the OP eludes to, it really pisses me off when people use the 'big-pharma' excuse as to why vaccines are bad.

Because the people that say this have no goddamn clue about the revenue stream generated by vaccination programme (here's a hint, next to fucking nothing) relative to the amount of money invested in them.

Virologists and immunologists in the UK tend to be funded by charity grants at the university/HE sector. And naturally they all drive around in Ferraris and Porches because their PhD stipend of £13k p/a and their junior post doctoral pay of around £20k p/a affords them all the luxury that their research has sown.

Pharmacy companies get a LOT more money from drugs and treatments that require repeat prescriptions, like anti-depressants and anti-psychotics. Why? Because a single round of injections, of popping some anti-biotics that eliminates the risk of viral infection or gets rid of a bacterial infection in one go does not earn repeat custom.

Seriously, if people actually stopped and thought about it for a second pharmacy companies would gain a lot more if they let a virus run amok because then they could develop drugs or treatments that helped alleviate the complications and not the cause (Deus ex anyone?)

But the anti-vax movement are actually some of the most dangerous and retarded group of woo-peddlers that I doubt even showing them the figures as evidence would cure them of their stupidity. Hell, pharma companies would earn a mint if they could develop something that could cure that.

[FreeTony]

But the anti-vax movement is actually probably the most dangerous and retarded group of woo-peddlers that I doubt even showing them the figures as evidence would cure them of their stupidity.

I think for people like that, there is a satisfaction in "knowing" more than other people, and even experts in a field. Same for conspiracy theorists etc. It makes people who are too lazy/stupid to actually study a field for many years suddenly feel like they know more than an expert. You're not going to be able to rob them of this feeling of superiority.

They don't care about methodology, they don't care about evidence. What they care about is how it makes them feel better about their own inadequacies.

[Fidel_Castronaut]

But the anti-vax movement is actually probably the most dangerous and retarded group of woo-peddlers that I doubt even showing them the figures as evidence would cure them of their stupidity.

I think for people like that, there is a satisfaction in "knowing" more than other people, and even experts in a field. Same for conspiracy theorists etc. It makes people who are too lazy/stupid to actually study a field for many years suddenly feel like they know more than an expert. You're not going to be able to rob them of this feeling of superiority.

They don't care about methodology, they don't care about evidence. What they care about is how it makes them feel better about their own inadequacies.

That is probably spot on. Feeling as tough you've stumbled onto an inconvenient and currently unknown 'truth' that will change the world, "if only people would listen to me!"

It's why I laugh my ass off when these people suddenly think they've got a PhD in toxicology or immunology because they read somewhere online that some guy thinks mercury is bad because their only interaction with it has been in a high school chemistry class or in a thermometer.

"INJECTING KEMICULS INTO MA BODY!"

[KichigaiNeko]

What REALLY gives me the tre shits, is that when some dopey lay person like myself actually looks into the topic..... Reads hers fucking eye balls out on peer reviewed papers, goes back to her family with the information and gets......





There there dear, Kichi, ha! Our little mushroom!

Grrr @:

[Bad Writer]

What REALLY gives me the tre shits, is that when some dopey lay person like myself actually looks into the topic..... Reads hers fucking eye balls out on peer reviewed papers, goes back to her family with the information and gets......





There there dear, Kichi, ha! Our little mushroom!

Grrr @:

Willful ignorance, that's what it is, and it's so sad considering how much we have to lose by becoming anti-vax.

@Psycho, doing a search on Google doesn't necessarily net a person the correct results. If you know what you are looking for, such as papers written by esteemed medical experts or peer-reviewed papers, then you are going to come across all the quacks vying for attention on an unchecked internet. When researching any topic, you need to remember that fact-checking is just as important as gathering your info.

[Jacob(smooth)]

This sums it up nicely.

[The Valkyrie]

Sorry, but there's an epidemic of whooping cough recently in California and I suspect that it will be traced, as many outbreaks of measels and other ailments have been, to unvaccinated children.

- Vaccinations do not cause autism
- Vaccinations have saved countless lives (and continue to do so)
- Until someone gives me peer reviewed studies that show vaccinations are bad, I will continue to support them.
- As far as I'm concerned vaccinations should be mandatory for all.

I'm the biggest supporter of vaccines in the world. But can't agree with number 4. Mandating any kind of medical treatment is a dangerous precedent, is unenforceable and would be imo, morally questionable.

Don't want to rehash old ground, but honest question for slice. What evidence, if any, would convince you that vaccines save lives?

On 4, I would generally agree with you. However, unvaccinated children and people still cause numerous outbreaks which cost millions, if not billions of dollars every year to treat.

And having "celebrity" talking tits - I mean heads - like Jenny McCarthy and her braindead followers do nothing to alleviate the situation.

[Jacob(smooth)]

On 4, I would generally agree with you. However, unvaccinated children and people still cause numerous outbreaks which cost millions, if not billions of dollars every year to treat.

True. But so does smoking, drinking and obesity. Once you start legislating to MAKE people be healthy, not merely by forbidding poisons but by mandating positive treatments, you step over a very dangerous line into personal freedom imo. It's a bit fuzzy with kids because you could make a good argument that the parents are being neglectful, but it still treads on dangerous ground. I let my kids climb trees, eat dirt and I don't give them ab's unless they are hospital level sick. Those are my parenting choices. I don't want anyone else given the right to make them for me.