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RE: The Long and the Short of it.
May 16, 2010 at 3:37 pm
(This post was last modified: May 16, 2010 at 3:38 pm by Paul the Human.)
There is very little evidence to suggest that the bible(s) are true. They mention some real people and real places, but they are depicted in an historically inaccurate manner (so the evidence suggests). Not to mention the stuff about magic and miracles. There is certainly no evidence to suggest any of that is real.
Basically, the evidence suggests that the bible is not a factual accounting of any people, places, or things that ever actually existed/happened. Believing otherwise is the act of accepting outrageous (by which I mean 'highly unlikely') stories as true without evidence to support that belief. I don't mean it to demean your opinion. It is my opinion and happens to differ from yours. The bible is a fairy tale... a falsehood. That is what I believe.
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RE: The Long and the Short of it.
May 16, 2010 at 3:40 pm
I believe what fr0do was suggesting, and correct me if I am wrong fr0do, is that the Bible presents certain life lessons and observations in the form of stories to teach about God. He believes those lessons, and accepts the stories as part of the method of teaching, whether they are true or not. 
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RE: The Long and the Short of it.
May 16, 2010 at 3:42 pm
So do these. Aesop's Fables
That doesn't make any of it true. And if the bible(s) are not true... what good are they as a reason to believe that god is real?
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RE: The Long and the Short of it.
May 16, 2010 at 4:00 pm
(This post was last modified: May 16, 2010 at 4:01 pm by Watson.)
This is where belief comes in; I, and fr0do, believe in the 'laws of human nature' set forth in the Bible, and you do not. We see that, for the most part, the teachings of the Bible are real and we believe they are, just like you would see the teachings of, say, gravity in a science text book.
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RE: The Long and the Short of it.
May 16, 2010 at 4:35 pm
(May 16, 2010 at 4:00 pm)Watson Wrote: This is where belief comes in; I, and fr0do, believe in the 'laws of human nature' set forth in the Bible, and you do not.
What are these 'laws of human nature' that you speak of? Is it that some of the parables and such actually reflect human nature? Is that what you mean? I honestly don't get what you mean by this.
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RE: The Long and the Short of it.
May 16, 2010 at 4:37 pm
(This post was last modified: May 16, 2010 at 4:39 pm by Watson.)
That is what I mean. Some of the parables and stories demonstrate quite well the way human nature works and why it works the way it does. Understanding these principles can help you take a second look at human nature and God, and find the relevance that they have to God. It requires an assumption to understand, or rather it requires belief. If you gave me a very human scenario, something that would really happen and something where the parties involved really would react the way they do to it, I could (probably) explain ather effectively why the scenario played out the way it did and why the people involved reacted the way they did.
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RE: The Long and the Short of it.
May 16, 2010 at 4:40 pm
@ Paul : The historicity of the bible, whilst interesting, isn't the point. That miracles cannot be verified is consistent don't you think? I'd agree with you that to believe some of that stuff is factually true would suggest you may need psychiatric help. Do I think the whole thing is spot on about the nature of God... hell yes.
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RE: The Long and the Short of it.
May 16, 2010 at 4:45 pm
There are other sources of stories with relevant morals to the tales and, I dare say, some of them have better stories that depict human nature even more strongly. Belief in god has nothing to do with seeing the meaning behind a metaphor or the moral of a fable. I see them in the bible, but I do not see how them being there leads to believing the claim that god is real.
And round and round we go. Heheh! I think we have found the sticking point. Belief. When it comes to the existence of god, I don't have it and you do. The question of why must remain unanswered, it seems.
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RE: The Long and the Short of it.
May 16, 2010 at 4:49 pm
(This post was last modified: May 16, 2010 at 4:50 pm by Watson.)
Haha, I would suggest that one requires belief to understand belief. Just like someone who has never been high, or someone who has never been drunk, cannot hope to be an expert on marijuana or alcohol. Understanding requires experience, and a logical interpretation of that experience.
Which is my primary reason for belief in God. I have experienced things which correspond to my own understanding of God, and others' as well. The Bible is a reference point, a documentation of these lessons as the people who experienced them understood what they were.
The fact that other stories and tales document these same moral concepts is even more corroboration for me.
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RE: The Long and the Short of it.
May 16, 2010 at 4:52 pm
Now you are assuming that I never believed. I did once upon a time. Then I began to ask questions...
Not at all like smoking pot or drinking alcohol in my opinion.
As for the bible(s)... we have completely different opinions as to what those books actually are, so... that won't get us anywhere. Heh.
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