Hi everyone :)

[robvalue]

My name is Rob, I've always been an atheist. I was lucky enough not to have any kind of religion thrust on me as a child at least by my immediate family, but I feel even if I was it wouldn't have stuck on me.

I enjoy most kinds of debates, particularly those regarding how the universe works at a fundamental level and about peoples' beliefs. Unfortunately I don't have a lot of people around me who enjoy talking about things in the detail I do.

I recently stumbled upon some amazingly funny videos on youtube by such people as Nonstampcollector and Darkmatter2525 and then more serious shows such as The Atheist Experience.

I spend a lot of time thinking about serious fundamental questions, such as:

1) What am "I"?
2) Is my consciousness real or just a side effect of my brain working?
3) Is anyone/anything else conscious?
4) How can I ever tell what is real and what is not?
5) Do I have free will?

I know these are questions which probably will never be completely answered. The most recent one which interested me though is, "What would it take for me to believe a god exists?" The only answer I have at the moment is "nothing". Even if I appeared to suddenly be directly experiencing god or some kind of higher power, I would come to the most likely conclusion that I am dreaming/hallucinating, particularly because of the stark contrast to every other experience I have had up to that point. I'd be interested to know other people's answer to this question.

Well, that's enough drivel for now! Take care all, and I look forward to taking part in discussions and stuff.

PS I forgot to mention things that I like: animals, video games (and all kinds of games), comedy

[SteelCurtain]

[Diablo]

Welcome Rob.

[Dystopia]

Hello,

[Baqal]

@robvalue
-The most recent one which interested me though is, "What would it take for me to believe a god exists?" The only answer I have at the moment is "nothing". Even if I appeared to suddenly be directly experiencing god or some kind of higher power, I would come to the most likely conclusion that I am dreaming/hallucinating, particularly because of the stark contrast to every other experience I have had up to that point.
That is a revelation on a personal level. But let's say that this god has revealed himself in public, and everyone is aware of the presence of this higher power, including you. Would this be good enough to change your mind?

-I'd be interested to know other people's answer to this question.
Empirical evidence of a deity would most definitely change my mind to believe in this deity. If I will worship it is an entirely different question.
Also, welcome. Enjoy the forums!

[robvalue]

@robvalue
-The most recent one which interested me though is, "What would it take for me to believe a god exists?" The only answer I have at the moment is "nothing". Even if I appeared to suddenly be directly experiencing god or some kind of higher power, I would come to the most likely conclusion that I am dreaming/hallucinating, particularly because of the stark contrast to every other experience I have had up to that point.
That is a revelation on a personal level. But let's say that this god has revealed himself in public, and everyone is aware of the presence of this higher power, including you. Would this be good enough to change your mind?

-I'd be interested to know other people's answer to this question.
Empirical evidence of a deity would most definitely change my mind to believe in this deity. If I will worship it is an entirely different question.
Also, welcome. Enjoy the forums!

Thanks very much everybody

Yeah this is the problem I have, even if everyone was experiencing it, I would still think it is more likely that I am hallucinating and that the other people's reactions are part of my hallucination. Especially if it was a one-time thing. So I suppose it would have to be some form of continued change accompanying the revelation, or frequent revelations to persuade me that it is actually happening. But again, some of my dreams seem to follow such a pattern of continuing experience. So I would think it likely to be a dream (although if it's a dream, thinking it's just a dream is probably just part of the dream. Dreams are interesting!)

That's a good answer that empirical evidence would suffice, but I wonder how any kind of evidence could be collected or data measured. If something is meant to be in some way supernatural (not complying with our laws of nature or however you'd define it), then it seems to me we either can't measure it at all, or can only measure any natural aspects of it. Would we have to be made supernatural ourselves to be able to measure or even experience it?

If it's not supernatural, then it's basically just some cool alien or something and not a god after all. I guess this is semantics to some extent. Can something be natural, completely within the universe yet be in control of it?

Also, even if I could be convinced it was supernatural in some way, it would be a huge leap from this to any sort of deity, let alone some sort of all-powerful god. I don't know what kind of demonstration something could do that would convince me of that. And I'd want to know why he felt the need to hide from me for so long, and to make me so I didn't think he existed. And why the world sucks.

PS: Of course, several definitions of what a god is are self contradictory, so it's going to be some watered down half-god type guy anyhow. I don't even know if there is an accepted proper definition of what a "deity" is other than something "more powerful". And all this stuff is of course my opinion Wow, I got really into it really fast... I'm sure you see why I have trouble finding people to talk to about this stuff!

[Baqal]

@robvalue
-That's a good answer that empirical evidence would suffice, but I wonder how any kind of evidence could be collected or data measured.
Yes, it may be insanely hard to find out how we can measure the presence of a deity. So far I can tell that it is pointless to search for a god until he decides to reveal himself to us. When is that going to be? Fuck if I know.

-Would we have to be made supernatural ourselves to be able to measure or even experience it?
I think the exact opposite: what we consider to be supernatural will become natural in its own kind if it becomes real. Everything that is measurable within the parameters of our reality is real and natural.

-And I'd want to know why he felt the need to hide from me for so long, and to make me so I didn't think he existed.
I wonder how would you react if he told you that it was a joke all along.

-Wow, I got really into it really fast... I'm sure you see why I have trouble finding people to talk to about this stuff!
Well... yeah. Heh. I'm looking forward to your future contributions. If you have a plan to stay here for a while, that is.

[robvalue]

Thank you Baqal, that's very kind

I would think it would be the joke with the biggest amount of buildup for a terrible punchline ever. Some comedians are bad, but they don't actually kill and torture people during their routines

Sure, if most people are this friendly then I would love to stick around.

Why do so many people not understand the burden of proof? I guess I need to start making other threads instead of going into random rants now.

So, hi again everyone! Looking forward to future discussions.

[Fidel_Castronaut]

Hey Rob, welcome to the forum :-)

[Minimalist]

Greetings and felicitations.