Michael Zehaf-Bibeau

[Simon Moon]

That would be violation of his free will.

The Bible, which you obviously have not read, has many cases where the "god" character violates the free will of humans.

You are speaking to a bunch of people that have more knowledge of the Bible than you do. So please, stop using the "it would violate free will' excuse.

[Lemonvariable72]

... his way of stopping the gunman, instead making him die in his sleep the night before.

That would be violation of his free will.

No, it would not. He is not actively controlling the will of anyone if his does that, unlike the situation proposed where he was actively controlling the choice of Cpl Carillo.

[Exian]

So is making an innocent soldier die as a tool for his followers to prosletyse.

No, God did not kill him, the gunman did. But God acted quick through the soldier to stop further bloodshed.

What happened to his free will? Damn, here I thought he was a heroic, selfless person.

[Christian]

No, God did not kill him, the gunman did. But God acted quick through the soldier to stop further bloodshed.

What happened to his free will? Damn, here I thought he was a heroic, selfless person.

The situation necessitated action. This was the only possible action without the need for God to reveal himself.

[The Valkyrie]

So is making an innocent soldier die as a tool for his followers to prosletyse.

No, God did not kill him, the gunman did. But God acted quick through the soldier to stop further bloodshed.

If, by your claim, your deity used the soldier as a sacrifice to give you people excuses to prosletyse then THAT is a violation of free will.

This isn't rocket science.

[Christian]

If, by your claim, your deity used the soldier as a sacrifice to give you people excuses to prosletyse then THAT is a violation of free will.

This isn't rocket science.

How? Did this event force you to convert? No!
So how did it exactly violate your freewill?

God acted, the choice is yours to either believe or ignore it.

[Exian]

People use all sorts of excuses to justify evil. In this case, this ideology we are seeing from ISIS is baseless from Quran but they carry the banner as if they are representing the Quran. The Quran teaches opposite to what they teach.

We've seen in history there were even sects that said Ali was God on earth even though this contradicts the theology of Quran clearly.

I get that, and you get that. Doesn't seem to stop them though, does it? The Quran's peaceful and perfect message seems to have some clarity issues.

[The Valkyrie]

If, by your claim, your deity used the soldier as a sacrifice to give you people excuses to prosletyse then THAT is a violation of free will.

This isn't rocket science.

How? Did this event force you to convert? No!
So how did it exactly violate your freewill?

God acted, the choice is yours to either believe or ignore it.

FFS!

Read back on what I said. If your god used this soldier as a sacrifice to allow you to prosletyse then it's a violation of THE SOLDIER's free will.

[Mystic]

People use all sorts of excuses to justify evil. In this case, this ideology we are seeing from ISIS is baseless from Quran but they carry the banner as if they are representing the Quran. The Quran teaches opposite to what they teach.

We've seen in history there were even sects that said Ali was God on earth even though this contradicts the theology of Quran clearly.

I get that, and you get that. Doesn't seem to stop them though, does it? The Quran's peaceful and perfect message seems to have some clarity issues.

It does have clarity issues. I agree. But majority of Muslims see it as teaching peace. This wasn't the case through out history. So again it reflects the heart of people. If people want to ignore verses and follow others that's up to them.

وَإِذْ أَخَذْنَا مِيثَاقَكُمْ لَا تَسْفِكُونَ دِمَاءَكُمْ وَلَا تُخْرِجُونَ أَنْفُسَكُمْ مِنْ دِيَارِكُمْ ثُمَّ أَقْرَرْتُمْ وَأَنْتُمْ تَشْهَدُونَ {84}
[Shakir 2:84] And when We made a covenant with you: You shall not shed your blood and you shall not turn your people out of your cities; then you gave a promise while you witnessed.
ثُمَّ أَنْتُمْ هَٰؤُلَاءِ تَقْتُلُونَ أَنْفُسَكُمْ وَتُخْرِجُونَ فَرِيقًا مِنْكُمْ مِنْ دِيَارِهِمْ تَظَاهَرُونَ عَلَيْهِمْ بِالْإِثْمِ وَالْعُدْوَانِ وَإِنْ يَأْتُوكُمْ أُسَارَىٰ تُفَادُوهُمْ وَهُوَ مُحَرَّمٌ عَلَيْكُمْ إِخْرَاجُهُمْ ۚ أَفَتُؤْمِنُونَ بِبَعْضِ الْكِتَابِ وَتَكْفُرُونَ بِبَعْضٍ ۚ فَمَا جَزَاءُ مَنْ يَفْعَلُ ذَٰلِكَ مِنْكُمْ إِلَّا خِزْيٌ فِي الْحَيَاةِ الدُّنْيَا ۖ وَيَوْمَ الْقِيَامَةِ يُرَدُّونَ إِلَىٰ أَشَدِّ الْعَذَابِ ۗ وَمَا اللَّهُ بِغَافِلٍ عَمَّا تَعْمَلُونَ {85}
[Shakir 2:85] Yet you it is who slay your people and turn a party from among you out of their homes, backing each other up against them unlawfully and exceeding the limits; and if they should come to you, as captives you would ransom them-- while their very turning out was unlawful for you. Do you then believe in a part of the Book and disbelieve in the other? What then is the re ward of such among you as do this but disgrace in the life of this world, and on the day of resurrection they shall be sent back to the most grievous chastisement, and Allah is not at all heedless of what you do.

[Christian]

Read back on what I said. If your god used this soldier as a sacrifice to allow you to prosletyse then it's a violation of THE SOLDIER's free will.

All actions of the soldier were predetermined, so it was exactly not violation of free will.

You cannot perceive anything beyond this immediate moment, and you cannot perceive active outside interference with your free will, and therefore the only logical way to act is as if you have free will.