Ministers Threatened with Jail/Fines For Refusing to Officiate at Gay Weddings

[Jenny A]

It would deprive the church members of their real property as would failing to pay their mortgage. You see the right to worship does not include the right to pay less for the facilities to do so than others. Tax exemptions for churches is essentially government sponsorship of churches. The church pays no property tax and yet the property tax funded fire department is expected to come and the tax supported police are expected to investigate thefts on the property and so on.

Further, giving churches a tax exempt status puts the government in the unhealthy role of deciding which churches represent "real" religions.

A mortgage is a voluntary contract between a mortgagor and a mortgagee whereby the church agrees ahead of time to forfeit use of the property. Property tax is not voluntary. The analogy you presented isn't accurate in my opinion.

And what if they were sued, lost, and the plaintiff filed a lien against the church's property. That can happen now, and the church would lose the property if it couldn't pay the lien. The point is that churches should have the same financial responsibilities as any other organization. Giving them special privileges is establishment of religion.

Further if Churches were assessed property taxes it would only be right and fair to then allow them the ability to endorse political candidates and measures.

Fair enough, provided they are a taxable organization, there is no reason why a church couldn't endorse a slate of candidates.

What if they endorse the losing side? It is not unheard of for winners to use government laws and regulations....including the ability to levy taxes....to punish those who opposed you.

Virtual all candidates for public office claim to be christian. How would this differ from the present?

The use of the IRS to punish Tea Party activist is a perfect example of the government being used to punish political enemies.

Funny, but the IRS scrutiny of the Tea Party mostly involved reluctance to give them tax exempt status. Kinda wouldn't be an issue huh. Not to mention First Amendment protection.

By keeping Churches tax exempt...you simply make it easier to maintain that separation between Church and state.

How does privileging the church maintain separation of the church and state?

I notice you didn't address the fact that the government is forced by the tax exempt status of churches into determining what is and isn't a real church.

[Heywood]

That is essentially true. A government could use differential taxation to discriminate among religions, to lighten the burden of a favored group and increase the burden on ones not in favor.

That's a good point. Don't like a particular church that's been there for 100 years.....over inflate the value of their property. Who's to say that cathedral isn't worth a billion dollars. Its not like there's are dynamic market for them.

Maybe if the fire and police levies were based strictly on square footage of the lot and not the value of the lot/improvements....then I would be okay with churches paying fire and police levy. You'd have to raise the tax on everyone which would make it hard to punish a church you don't like.

[Jenny A]

We were talking about property taxes....not income taxes....dummy.

Regarding income tax.....I'd like to simplify the tax code and eliminate all deductions.

You may have been talking only about property taxes, but I sure wasn't. The same arguments apply to all taxes.

As to income taxes, eliminating the religious organization exemption certainly would simplify things.

(By the way, most deductions have to do with determining what actually is net income after the costs of producing gross income are deducted. Eliminating other deductions isn't such a bad idea.)

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That is essentially true. A government could use differential taxation to discriminate among religions, to lighten the burden of a favored group and increase the burden on ones not in favor.

That's a good point. Don't like a particular church that's been there for 100 years.....over inflate the value of their property. Who's to say that cathedral isn't worth a billion dollars. Its not like there's are dynamic market for them.

Maybe if the fire and police levies were based strictly on square footage of the lot and not the value of the lot/improvements....then I would be okay with churches paying fire and police levy. You'd have to raise the tax on everyone which would make it hard to punish a church you don't like.

Let's not get paranoid. It is possible to litigate a property value assment, and as far as I know there hasn't been a rash of over valuation of union, or party held property.

[Heywood]

I notice you didn't address the fact that the government is forced by the tax exempt status of churches into determining what is and isn't a real church.

Separation is never going to be perfect.