Ministers Threatened with Jail/Fines For Refusing to Officiate at Gay Weddings

[Heywood]

Two Christian ministers who own an Idaho wedding chapel were told they had to either perform same-sex weddings or face jail time and up to a $1,000 fine, according to a lawsuit filed Friday in federal court.

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2014/10/2...-weddings/

Is Freedom of Religion, or freedom in general, being eroded in this country by anti-discrimination laws?

[Alex K]

Hm, interesting. Does the law view this wedding chapel thing as a business, and what they do amounts to simple customer discrimination? Not so absurd.

Is Freedom of Religion, or freedom in general, being eroded in this country by anti-discrimination laws?

Freedom of the individual is always limited by a society. That's how society works. I don't think that these ministers are in any way
limited in their freedom to practise their religion. How skewed is your view to think that they, who are in a huge majority in their country,
are under some kind of threat to have their freedom of religion taken away? Call again when someone monitors their worship activities and
fines them for praying to the wrong god.

[Heywood]

Freedom of the individual is always limited by a society. That's how society works. I don't think that these ministers are in any way
limited in their freedom to practise their religion. How skewed is your view to think that they, who are in a huge majority in their country,
are under some kind of threat to have their freedom of religion taken away? Call again when someone monitors their worship activities and
fines them for praying to the wrong god.

We are not talking about the majority. We are talking about these two ministers.

These two ministers are being fined and threatened with jail for not preforming a religious ceremony that they believe would displease their God. How is this different in any meaningful way then fining them for praying to the wrong God?

[Alex K]

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Freedom of the individual is always limited by a society. That's how society works. I don't think that these ministers are in any way
limited in their freedom to practise their religion. How skewed is your view to think that they, who are in a huge majority in their country,
are under some kind of threat to have their freedom of religion taken away? Call again when someone monitors their worship activities and
fines them for praying to the wrong god.

We are not talking about the majority. We are talking about these two ministers.

---

These two ministers are being fined and threatened with jail for not preforming a religious ceremony that they believe would displease their God. How is this different in any meaningful way then fining them for praying to the wrong God?

Simple - because they are running a business offering a service to the public for money.

[Heywood]

Simple - because they are running a business offering a service to the public for money.

So if they make money off religious ceremonies which please their God they must then be required to preform religious ceremonies which displease their God?

If you make money speaking about gay rights, can the state then force you to speak about the sanctity of marriage?

[FatAndFaithless]

Heywood, they are running a business. Businesses are required to follow the non discrimination laws. Churches are not businesses, and not required.

[Brakeman]

Two Christian ministers who own an Idaho wedding chapel were told they had to either perform same-sex weddings or face jail time and up to a $1,000 fine, according to a lawsuit filed Friday in federal court.

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2014/10/2...-weddings/

Is Freedom of Religion, or freedom in general, being eroded in this country by anti-discrimination laws?

Wow! You christians surely do love to lie. Do they teach pathological lying in seminary?

1. The chapel received no notice or complaint from the city at all, they made the whole story up because they watched a TV interview.

2. The complaint was written in a childlike manner that would have gotten a real lawyer in trouble.

3. It is a manufactured hoax designed to give the false impression that a government that does not allow religiously inspired marriage discrimination would not allow religious freedom of conscious.

4. The chapel lied on it's business incorporation form that it is not a church. If they want to be treated as a religious entity, why can't they tell the truth and become one? Well, then of course they wouldn't have anything else to lie about.

[Heywood]

Heywood, they are running a business. Businesses are required to follow the non discrimination laws. Churches are not businesses, and not required.

Being in business is an act of making one's living. Where in the constitution does it say that by engaging in business you lose your constitutional protection against being forced into engaging/participating in religious ceremonies against your will?

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http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2014/10/2...-weddings/

Is Freedom of Religion, or freedom in general, being eroded in this country by anti-discrimination laws?

Wow! You christians surely do love to lie. Do they teach pathological lying in seminary?

Can you at least provide a link to the liberaltard ragsheet you got your talking points from? Or did you just make all those claims you listed up?

[FatAndFaithless]

Heywood, they are running a business. Businesses are required to follow the non discrimination laws. Churches are not businesses, and not required.

Being in business is an act of making one's living. Where in the constitution does it say that by engaging in business you lose your constitutional protection against being forced into engaging/participating in religious ceremonies against your will?

Non-discrimination laws have been around for quite a while now Woody. If it's a business, they must follow those laws to participate in the public sphere. Just like a business can't refuse to serve black patrons, a business cannot refuse to serve gay patrons. Now, if it were a church and not a busniess then they can refuse to do whatever they like legally. The fact that the owners of this business happen to be pastors is beside the point. They could refuse all the gay couples and black couples and pre-marital-sex-having couples or any other sort of "affront" to their religion, if it was a church. But it's not. It's a business.

By the way, I didn't think using religious ritual as a business was quite...kosher.

[Heywood]

Non-discrimination laws have been around for quite a while now Woody. If it's a business, they must follow those laws to participate in the public sphere. Just like a business can't refuse to serve black patrons, a business cannot refuse to serve gay patrons. Now, if it were a church and not a busniess then they can refuse to do whatever they like legally. The fact that the owners of this business happen to be pastors is beside the point. They could refuse all the gay couples and black couples and pre-marital-sex-having couples or any other sort of "affront" to their religion, if it was a church. But it's not. It's a business.

By the way, I didn't think using religious ritual as a business was quite...kosher.

This is the product they are selling:

We strive to make your wedding experience memorable and personal for you. At the Hitching Post, ordained ministers will marry you using a traditional, religious ceremony. You are also able to choose which themed room you would like to have your ceremony in.

-bolded by me.

http://hitchingpostweddings.com/resources/faq/

Freedom of Religion has been around a lot longer than anti-discrimination laws. Free exercise of religion trumps anti-discrimination laws as evidenced by the numerous ministerial exceptions the courts say exists.

The government cannot force a minister to preform a religious ceremony against his will.